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Ozibird You win again. I am willing to bet money on that being their marriage cert. It's not long after his first wife's death, but I wonder where Beatrice is in the 1891 census as she doesn't seem to be with Ada??

Maybe it is a red herring after all. If you can't find a marriage cert for ada and william they might not have married at all.

Actually I dont think it works age wise, Alices brother John was born 1880 and the marriage cert is 1903, and the William on it is 23! I need to rest now, I will order Lily's cert and also Beatrice and see what happens.

Maureen I think that makes perfect sense. If the marriage cert says the father is John, he could well be Alice's brother. You may have found another part of the family you weren't looking for. If you decide to get those birth certs, post an update I am intrigued to know about Lily and Beatrice. Laura

Thanks for your help, I am not sure where I got in a muddle, wish I could remember! I think I may need a rest period on this one, Alice Shead was my grandmother, and her father was William Shead, Daisy was definitely Alice's sister as she writes my Dear Sister Alice. I know Ada Rose Sargents parents were Frederick Sargent and Alice Lilian Sargent and looking at the wedding cert again, Williams father is John Henry Shead. I may have come up with the presumption Ada Rose Sargent was the correct Ada, as she matched a marriage! The fog may be clearing here - Alice had a brother John, so its possibly his son?!

ozbird you beat me to it but at least i'm not going mad and someone out there thinks like me!

There is a birth index for a Lily Selina Shead Mar 1885 Islington 1b 418. Could this be her? If the only census reference to Tilly is that one in 1891 I would go with it being either mistranscribed or misheard. The letter you have says Lily so may be that was her name.

Have you thought that Tilly on the 1891 could be Beatrice and they went on to have a daughter called Lily after 1901 and that is who the letter refers to? Georgina.

As Ada was young when she had Beatrice could she have been brought up by Ada's parents til the first wife died then Ada took her to live with William?

I think I got Ada's name from a census as she was listed withone of the girls and William, she was listed as Ada Rose Sargent, I thought it was 1901, but as you say it may have been a red herring.

1891 ? Ada Bright abt 1870 Great Bardfield, Essex, England Servant Hackney London not that helps with Beatrice Shead though.

Hi Maureen Not sure if I will be any help but what about these for suggestions. The marriage cert you have for shead/sargent is a red herring, nothing to do with this family. Ada was a Bright and had Beatrice by William Shead so the birth is listed as William being the father. As this was is 1885 and his first wife didn't die til 1892 may be Ada is on the census as Bright. Am I right in thinking you only thought her name was sargent from the marriage cert. She could have been a bright then shead, never anything else. And maybe she didn't even marry him, just took his name. Does this make any sense or is it just too late on a Friday?? Regards Laura

I ordered Daisy certificate and it says she was born 30th June 1901, father William Shead and mother Ada Shead formerly Bright, this cert came a week or so ago, so I presumed Ada who I thought was Sargent had formerly been a Birght! Today I got the marriage cert of William Shead and Ada Rose Sargent, and they are much younger than the ones I mentioned previously, so this William Shead is 23 and his wife is 21, so it looks like it is the other Williams son maryring an Ada too. I just cant get my head round this, as I hadnt seen a son called William previously, so am I up the wrong tree now??

Thanks for your help, yes that is them on the 1901 census, and William with other wife on 1891 census. Both Beatrice and Tilly (Lily) are seperate people as I have a letter from Daisy (in Australia) to Alice and she mentions getting a letter from Lily and Beatie once a year. Its due to this letter that I have started trying to track this family. Thank you for Elizabeths death reg, that is very useful. Also I hadnt thought about getting Ada/Williams marriage cert, so will go and order that. Thank you, if anyone else has any more input all help welcome.

Just a thought, maybe Tilly was Beatrice's pet name and Beatrice and Tilly are one and the same person???

I would imagine that beatrice is a Sargent not a shead? She probably took the name when her mothre hitched up with Shead. Having said that if this is them in 1901 then Ada would of been 14 when she had beatrice? Ada Shead abt 1871 Essex, England Wife St Luke London Beatrice Shead abt 1885 St Luke, London, England Daughter St Luke London John Shead abt 1880 Islington, London, England Son St Luke London William Shead abt 1858 Essex, England Head St Luke London Suzanne For reference: 1891: William Shead abt 1856 Finchingfield, Essex, England Head St Luke London Elizabeth Shead abt 1858 Great Bradfield, Essex, England Wife St Luke London Alice Shead abt 1878 Great Bradfield, Essex, England Daughter St Luke London John Shead abt 1880 Islington, London, England Son St Luke London Thomas Shead abt 1883 Islington, London, England Son St Luke London Tilly Shead abt 1885 Islington, London, England Daughter St Luke London Elizabeths death?: Deaths Jun 1892 Shead Elizabeth 35 Holborn 1b 474 (Covers St Lukes area) Cant find a birth for Ada Rose Sargent so presume she must have married before? Found a marriage in Wellingborough but ruled it out as the Sargent in question married Mary from the same page and not Ada Rose. The only thing I can suggest is getting the marriage cert and getting Ada's fathers name and occupation to help track her in census?

I have a William Shead, he initially married Elizabeth Barker and they had the following children Alice b 1878 – Great Barfield John b 1881 - Islington Thomas b 1853 - Islington Tilly or maybe Lily b 1885 - Islington On 1901 census he has a wife named Ada b abt 1871 Essex, (they actually married in 1903 in Orsett Middlesex - nee Ada Rose Sargent), so presumably Elizabeth died, (she is on 1891 census), although I haven’t found her death yet, also on the 1901 census are John and Beatrice. Ada seems to have had two children with last name Shead – Beatrice b 1886 - St Lukes, London, Daisy b 1901 - Holborn I cant seem to find Ada on any previous census, nor Beatrice on 1891 census. Beatrice – I can find two births - one as Beatrice Shead b Q3 1885 St Geo.H. Sq (so think this must be the one, although Ada hadn’t married William by then) or Beatrice E Sargent Q1 1886 – Newmarket. Can anyone give me any advice/help, I feel like I hit a big brick wall? Just seen the late time, will check back in the morning, just in case there are any late birds who can help me. Thanks

see below and 19.05.06