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Marie, thank you so much for trying to help me on this one. I just can't seem to make any headway at all. I do think the Thomas Standen/Elizabeth Brown marriage at St. Mary's Lewisham is the right one, especially since discovering that Sarah Maria's mother was Elizabeth. I have a copy of the parish record entry, but unfortunately it doesn't help in the least. I can't read the witnesses names either. The reason I feel this might be right is as follows: Sarah Maria married William Godfrey Forster. William G's parents were married at St. Mary's Lewisham, 2 years after the Standen/Brown one, and on two census returns I found some Fortser children living with an aunt and uncle Brown. So that all seems to tie together neatly. Also, one of the witnesses at the Forster/Copper marriage was one Kizar Hedgecock (I haven't been able to find him/her on the census so far), and in tracing Hedgecocks I found one with the middle name of Standen. On Sarah Maria's marriage certificate in September 1849 her father isn't shown as Deceased, as has occurred on other certs I've bought, so I was assuming that he was still alive then, so should be on the 1841 census at least. I don't think I've contacted Julia Fergusson, I'll have to try and track her down, thanks for the information. As I have no information about Thomas Standen other than his name, its very difficult to work sideways, because it seems to be a very common name in both Kent and Sussex. I'm so pleased to hear that you've had a breakthrough, isn't it a wonderful feeling? I felt like that a few weeks ago when I found the record of Sarah Maria's christening in Plumstead Now that is one I'd like to see. Jan

Jan, Have looked everywhere for your Thomas and Elizabeth. Found Sarah Maria Forster on the three cesuses and been through every Thomas Standen on Ancestry. Discounted them all. Do you think the marriage of Thomas standen to Eliz. Brown 22 July 1824 St. Mary's Lewisham is yours. If so try to get a look. Lewisham library might hold records(they have St. Barts. Sydenham there). ( There were no other chritenings on IGI for same batch no.) You should get parents names from there. Are you in touch with Julia Fergusson formerly Forster(message boards). She has Standens. I got an unexpected breakthrough today quite out of the blue ( after 4 years!)so just keep plodding on. Try going sideways via other Standens in Kent. Best of luck, Marie

Marie, sorry for the delay in replying, I've been away for the weekend. First of all, I heard some time ago that a lot of Lewisham (and therefore Sydenham) records were lost in a fire, so I'd just given up hope of finding anything about Sarah Maria's birth, when it appeared suddenly on IGI, although I'd already checked there several times. In fact it was a christening, in Plumstead. I know Sarah Maria's father was Thomas, from her marriage certificate. I found the birth records of the Edward and Sarah born West Chiltington, and their father was not Thomas, which is why I'm so sure that Sarah is not my great grandmother. I'm not too concerned about the IGI saying that Edward died in 1825. I found one Elizabeth Brown (which I believe to be Sarah Maria's mother's name) who was born in about 1804 in Lewisham, died 1883, but married in 1796. So obviously there are serious errors in these records. She married Thomas Scrivens, I wondered whether that was another mistake and should have been Thomas Standen. But I think I have their marriage record, in St. Mary's Lewisham. I've looked for Sarah Maria (she very rarely appears as just Sarah) everywhere - Sydenham, Lewisham, Bexley, all over. Thanks for your help, its very much appreciated. Jan

Hi! I've had terrible trouble with my Sydenham folks too! How do you know for certain that your Sarah is the Sarah Maria Standen christened Plumstead in 1828, parents Thomas and EliZabeth? Why is the Elizabeth with daughter Sarah and son Edward in Bell green Sydenham in 1841 definitely not yours?. That Elizabeth was a needlewoman, born Dulwich and living as a lodger with the Bath family in same Bell Green Sydenham in 1851. Son Edward , a gardener, and wife Elizabeth, both 25 and no children also living in Bell Green in 1851. In 1861 Edward still in Bell Green but with several children and now a fishmonger(same birth place Chiltington West Sussex.). No sign of Elizabeth or sarah. The strange thing is that the Edward born West Chiltington Sussex in1825 also died in 1825(according to IGI)! so who is the one in Lewisham in 1841'51 and '61? whose birthdate and olace is identical? If I come up with anything I'll let you know. Have you looked for a Sarah born in Sydenham? Regards, Marie

Maybe one of the Thomas you found IS yours. Elizabeth may have died and Thomas remarried before the census. Gwyn.... clutching straws?

'Devonshire Dumpling', sorry for the delay in replying - I don't somehow think he was in the army, he is on his daughter's marriage certificate in 1849 as Labourer. Thanks for the suggestion. Jan

Could he have been in Indian Army -then back here again in time to die! Would explain why he was missing for several censuses.

Margaret, that certainly could be him, thank you - I've checked BMD so many times without result, perhaps its been updated. Dartford is certainly the right area, but if he died in 1866 then he should be in the 41, 51 AND 61 census returns, so where on earth can he be hiding? I just hope when I die that there is a heaven, then the first thing I'll do is track him down and ask him. PS I've just checked in the 41, 51 and 61, the only Thomas Standen c1791 I can find is in Maidstone, with wife Fanny. Jan

Hi Jan, How are you? Sorry i cant help with this one. Hope you find them and that we find Isaac How and his family. Regards Fi x

Thanks for your suggestions Margaret. On Sarah's marriage certificate (Bexley Heath 1849) her father is shown as Labourer. Even if I did find a Thomas and Elizabeth Standen in America, I wouldn't know for sure if they were the right ones, because I don't know where or when they were born, or if they had any other children. Thats the whole problem. Its driving me crazy. Jan

Thanks for that infor, Deborah, but I haven't found any connection between my Standens and the Sevenoaks/Tonbridge/Brenchley ones. As I said, Sarah seems to be a popular name within that family, and a lot of them had fathers named Thomas. Jan

Any relation??? Name SARAH MARIA STANDEN Parents JAMES/MARY ANN Baptised 30 APR 1828 at TUNBRIDGE WELLS / TONBRIDGE Parish Tonbridge, Charles the Martyr, KEN Found info on Family History Online

Thanks, Margaret and Suzanne. Yes, I do have the info about Thomas and Elizabeth Brown, in fact I have a copy of the parish register entry. I believe this to be the right one, as two years later Sarah's future husband's parents (Forster & Copper) were married at the same church. Might just be co-incidence, of course, but seems a pointer in the right direction. I also found a couple of Forster children staying with an aunt and uncle Brown. I did find the entry for Sarah as the servant, but of course there is no way of knowing whether or not this is my Sarah, though it isn't quite the right area of Kent for her. I was hoping to find her with at least one of her parents. Perhaps both Thomas and Elizabeth died before 1841. I have no information about either of them, which is very frustrating. Thanks for trying to help. Jan

Suppose youve seen this one, by herself a female servant: Name: Sarah Standing Age: 12 Estimated birth year: abt 1829 Household: View other family members Gender: Female Where born: Kent, England Civil parish: Cudham Hundred: Ruxley County/Island: Kent Country: England Source information: HO107/481/14 Registration district: Bromley Sub-registration district: Bromley ED, institution, or vessel: 10 Folio: 5 Page: 2

The problem is that there were a lot of Standens in Kent, many of them Thomas, with daughter Sarah. I've tried to sort through them all, and my Sarah isn't connected to the lot in Brenchley, Sevenoaks or Tonbridge. I have no idea when or where her parents were born or died, I just have their names from her christening record on IGI, and his name from her marriage certificate. I believe Thomas and Elizabeth were married in Greenwich. After her marriage Sarah lived in Bexley Heath, Kent, so I'm expecting to find her somewhere in the Plumstead/Woolwich, Bexley, Sydenham/Lewisham or Greenwich area. I haven't been able to find any siblings, either. On my grandfather's birth certificate she is shown as Sarah Standing, but Standen is on her christening record and her marriage certificate. I've even looked through all the Sarahs born in 1828 in Kent, and still can't find her. Her age remains consistent in all census returns. Jan

???? Eleanor Standen abt 1836 Kent, England Tonbridge Kent James Standen abt 1791 Kent, England Tonbridge Kent James Standen abt 1833 Kent, England Tonbridge Kent Marieanne Standen abt 1796 Kent, England Tonbridge Kent Sarah Standen abt 1828 Kent, England Tonbridge Kent William Standen abt 1823 Kent, England Tonbridge Kent

Were her parents alive in 1851? Have you tried Ston* or Stun*

I've tried, and others have tried, to find SARAH MARIA STANDEN, or her father THOMAS or her mother ELIZABETH, in the 1841 census. Sarah Maria was christened in August 1828 in Plumstead, Kent. By the 1851 she was married, giving her place of birth as Sydenham, Kent. I have found an Elizabeth Standen with daughter Sarah and son Edward in 1841 in Kent, but this is not the right family. I've also tried Standing, and Stanton, and Stan*, but none of the ones that come up can be her. Please can anyone solve this mystery for me? Jan