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Ian - somewhere on this thread where we're talking about carrs and nobles in richmond there is mention of a george and also of a jane from whitewall near malton. This is a tangent, but it may help. There is a norton near malton in yorkshire - but there is also a norton which (for bmd & census purposes) is in durham but is very near to stockton. So perhaps it was the stockton norton he was born in?? Jools

If you consider my responses rude then I will apologise. When you do the number of lookups that I do and get no replies or feedback then you would also get a bit annoyed. I do not do lookups for the 'applause' just for the satisfaction of finding out info. If I had posted a thread asking for help then I would have stayed logged on long enough to check any information received or to see if any questions where being asked. Most threads get very quick responses, possibly within minutes, so you would not have to stay around for very long. Maureen

These are on 1861 Charles Carr abt 1853 South Shields, Durham, England Son Hulme Lancashire (Head of HH is mother) Charles Carr abt 1854 Lamesley, Durham, England Son Seaton Delavel Northumberland (Head of HH is father - George Carr, a Coal Miner) Charles Carr abt 1854 Gateshead, Durham, England Son Hunslet Yorkshire (Head of HH is father - Edward Carr, a forgeman in the iron department) writing is faint but my best guess at occupation

Karen, Try any of those, although Ian said the first time Charles appears is in 1871 so try just Carr first. Cheers, Rose

I can look up 1861 on ancestry - but a bit confused (not difficult!) am I looking for Charles Noble or Charles Carr or Charles Carr Noble - born 1854'ish Durham ? Karen

Can anyone find Charles Carr on the 1861 census? I don't have access. I can't see one that fits in 1881. Rose

I am new to this site and unsure of how it works, so would like to apologise for my late response. Jools and Glitter Baby I was unaware it was treated like a chat room that prompted such quick replies. I have been overwhelmed by the amount of help offered by you all, and greatly appreciate your efforts on my behalf, but it seems a shame that a couple of you resort to rudeness at my lack of attention to checking my computer. I was only expecting suggestions of other types of sites to check myself. What I have already if it helps is: Marriage certificate (which I said didn't help much) shows marriage 5/6/1876, Charles Carr Noble Aged 21, Blacksmith, resident Stockton on Tees, Fathers name: Noble (no first name) Trade Pitman Jeanette Armar Campbell Aged 20. Jeanette did not work and also lived in Stockton. Her fathers name was listed as Alexander Carr Noble (which seems to be a clerical error), a contractor. The witness was David Lewis who worked in the local foundry and Pheobe Campbell, Jeanettes' sister. Jeanettes fathers proper name was Alexander Campbell and not Carr Noble. I also have the marriage certificate of one of Charles sons' Alfred Noble, born 1893, married on 15/2/1912 to Johanna McCusker. Alfred was a joiner and his father is listed as JOHN (?) Noble, Blacksmith which has confused things even more. Johannas' father was Michael Mcusker, iron moulder, the witnesses were Archibald Noble (brother) and Florence Noble (sister). The death of Charles was registered by his son Alfred Noble in 1935. The Charles Noble B.1856 in Bellingham on the 1871 census in Bellingham doesn't appear to be the same Charles as 'my' Charles as he was on the 1871 census in Richmond N. Yorks where he was living whilst training as a blacksmith. Also his father was John, a farmer but my Charles' father was a miner on Charles marriage cert. I also eliminated Charles Blackett Noble B.1855 as he is on the 1871 census in Bishopswearmouth. Georgina: you have the right family on the 1881 census. Portland Rose: I would like to thank you for this date of birth, Carr Charles, March 1854 in Durham 10A 182, I will request the certificate ASAP. I have all census records, marriage and death certs. that I can get and my feeling are that he was illegitimate, and born to either a Carr or a Noble. After a close inspection of the 1871 census in Richmond (N. Yorks) there were two families Carr and Noble living at The Green, Richmond, which is where Charles lived whilst an apprentice, but as yet I can't link them together. Jane Noble, 1861-1891 census records for Richmond. B.1817 in Whitewall Norton , Yorks.She had a daughter Ann B.1856 Newark, Northumberland. Jane was listed as the Head of the family, no husband or partner. On the 1851 census Jane was married to William Noble B1818, Partington Yorks but living in St George, Hanover Square, London. George Carr B1839 also lived at the The Green Richmond on the 1861 & 1871 census but on 1891 census he also live in St George Hanover Square London. There has been no mention of a Charles in either of these families but it all seems very coincedental?. George Carr was a cabinet maker. All of the above was why I tried to keep my orginal message short. Sorry you asked now? Any ideas of where to continue looking would save my sanity. Thanks Ian.

Surprise, surprise - still no response from the thread originator. Ian if you want help with a lookup then you have to offer information when asked. Maureen

Perhaps this is his birth: Births Mar 1854 Carr Charles Durham 10a 182 Rose

If this is the marriage then the 1881 details that show Campbells as lodgers could be the wifes family Name: Charles Carr Noble Year of Registration: 1876 Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun District: Stockton County: Co. Durham, North Riding Of Yorkshire Volume: 10a Page: 130 Janet (Jeanette) Armour Campbell 1871 Name: Charles Noble Age: 15 Estimated birth year: abt 1856 Relation: Son Where born: Northd, Bellingham Civil Parish: Greystead and Smalesmouth County/Island: Northumberland Country: England Source information: RG10/5158 Registration district: Bellingham Sub-registration district: Bellingham ED, institution, or vessel: 7 Folio: 17 Page: 4 Household schedule number: 22 GSU Number: 848481 Barbara Noble abt 1838 Northd, Falstone Wife John Noble abt 1829 Irthington, Cumberland, England Head James Noble abt 1864 Northd, Greystead Son Jane Noble abt 1867 Northd, Greystead Daughter Margaret Noble abt 1860 Northd, Bellingham Daughter Thomas Noble abt 1869 Northd, Greystead Son Could this be Charles in 1871? As others have already said some more info from the marriage certificate would be appreciated. Maureen Update 1871 - this has got to be the one you mean Name: Charles Carr Noble Age: 17 Estimated birth year: abt 1854 Relation: Boarder Where born: Durham, England Civil Parish: St Mary Town: Richmond County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Source information: RG10/4874 Registration district: Richmond Sub-registration district: Richmond ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Folio: 76 Page: 24 Household schedule number: 135 GSU Number: 849471

Ian - we can't help you without knowing his father's details from his marriage certificate (and the witnesses too please). Instead of offering help on another thread by doing ancestry lookups, a bit of a response from you on this thread wouldn't come amiss please.

whats his fathers name on marriage cert?

For reference this is him in 1881... Charles Carr NOBLE Head M Male 26 Durham, Durham, England Blacksmith Jannet Carr NOBLE Wife M Female 25 Scotland Euphemia C. NOBLE Daur U Female 4 Stockton, Durham, England Charles C. NOBLE Son U Male 2 Stockton, Durham, England Henry C. NOBLE Son U Male 4 m Stockton, Durham, England Alexander CAMPBELL Lodger M Male 54 Scotland Labourer Jannet CAMPBELL Lodger M Female 42 Scotland Alexander CAMPBELL Lodger U Male 21 Sunderland, Durham, England Puddler (Iron) Angus CAMPBELL Lodger U Male 18 Bedlington, Northumberland, England Labourer Archibold CAMPBELL Lodger U Male 15 Bedlington, Northumberland, England Labourer Christiana CAMPBELL Lodger U Female 12 Stockton, Durham, England Scholar John CAMPBELL Lodger U Male 8 Stockton, Durham, England Scholar Source Information: Dwelling 35 Lindsay St Census Place Stockton On Tees, Durham, England Family History Library Film 1342178 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 4899 / 159 Page Number 21 Georgina.

If this is his christening on the IGI... CHARLES NOBLE Male Event(s): Birth: Christening: 13 JAN 1856 Bellingham, Northumberland, England Death: Burial: Parents: Father: JOHN NOBLE Mother: BARBARA Then this is him in 1861... Margaret Dodd abt 1858 Bellingham, Northumberland, England Niece Bellingham Northumberland Barbara Noble abt 1837 Bellingham, Northumberland, England Head Bellingham Northumberland Charles Noble abt 1856 Bellingham, Northumberland, England Son Bellingham Northumberland Margaret Noble abt 1860 Bellingham, Northumberland, England Daughter Bellingham Northumberland James Waitt abt 1804 Northumberland, England Boarder Bellingham Northumberland Source information: RG9/3868 Registration district: Bellingham Sub-registration district: Bellingham ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Folio: 20 Page: 34 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 179 GSU Number: 543198 Georgina.

Who does the MC say his father was & what did dad do? Also (just in case they help) what were witness names?

My great grandfather appears on the1871census, aged 17, through to 1901. He first appears in Richmond North Yorkshire as a blacksmiths' apprentice. His possible year of birth is 1854/55. Also in Richmond are a family of Nobles' and Carrs' but I can't find a link. He then lived and died in Stockton on Tees, Co. Durham. I have marriage and death certificates but they don't help. Can anyone help me with my problem? Regards Ian Noble