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I would just like to say a sincere thanks to Lorraine Wink and Kathleen Bell for their assistance during my recent battle to find Samuel Reed's parent's details. I am glad to say I now have full details of them....so it's now backwards, ever backwards. Regards Don.

Yes I agree with everything you say on this, In Sam's case he had no children from his first marriage, probably due to the fact that his Wife was so ill. I think this is going to be a problem and I am most grateful for your help. My Father was, together with his siblings, illegitimate and born in a Workhouse so I had to take his Mother's line, and I got back to 1539 in 6 months. I have been trying to get back from my Grandfather Samuel longer than that now !!!! Still that's half the fun of it I think. I tell people to glean as much info from Mums and Dad's and Grans etc, while they are still alive and just wish I had...My Gran (Hannah) told me when I was young that there is a link in our family with the Brocklebank Shipping Line, The Wedgwood Pottery Family and Dame Myra Hess the concert pianiste, but in Samuel's line or hers I don't know. Interesting though ? x

Hi Donald, Personally, I think the age is more likely to be right on the earlier census returns. I don't think he would have to lie about his age to get the job. In those days 17 would have been regarded as quite mature. My grandfather's sister is on the 1901 census living away from home and working as a servant at the age of 10. I couldn't find Samuel or his father before 1881, so they must be mis-transcribed. As for him being 'naughty', I'm not sure. Yes it went on a lot, but equally if a man had children and his wife died, then it was quite common for him to marry again fairly quickly. Kath. x

Kathleen I forgot, yes he was married to a Margaret Ditchfield previously and she died very young about 36 in 1899 and if this is to be believed he then married my Grandmother Hannah in 1900 don't tell me something wasn't going on when she was ill naughty naughty !

Hi Kathleen, Just switched on and got your messages. Yes that is he . I have actually got part of that info, but it is strange that his age keeps varying no wonder we can't tie him dow, but the thought occurs to me that where he was 20 and a Pawnboker's Asst, if he gave a false age 20 instead of 17 to get the job. ???He is certainly a mystery. I searched LDS Ancestry and A2 till 9pm last night looking for his Father but no lucl. Thanks Donx

Samuel in 1881:- Name: Samuel Reed Age: 20 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861 Relation: Boarder Gender: Male Where Born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England Civil parish: Liverpool County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: 337 Scotland Road Education: Employment status: View image Occupation: Pawnbrokers Assistant Registration district: Liverpool Sub registration district: St Martin ED, institution, or vessel: 33 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Samuel Reed 20 Albert S. Rowe 35 His birth year has become about 1860/1861 Kath. x

Is this the right one in 1891 with a different wife:- Name: Samuel Reed Age: 29 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862 Relation: Head Spouses's Name: Margaret A Gender: Male Where Born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England Civil parish: Kirkdale Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Pawnbroker's assistant Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View image Registration district: West Derby Sub registration district: Kirkdale ED, institution, or vessel: 13 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Margaret A Reed 28 Samuel Reed 29 View Original Record View original image Kath. x

Is this the right Saamuel in 1901 census:- Name: Samuel Reed Age: 37 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864 Relation: Head Spouses's Name: Hannah E Gender: Male Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England Civil parish: Kirkdale Ecclesiastical parish: St Athanasius County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Pawnbroker's manager Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View image Registration district: West Derby Sub-registration district: Kirkdale ED, institution, or vessel: 27 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 85 Household Members: Name Age Hannah E Reed 23 Harriet J Reed 1 month Samuel Reed 37 Mary J Reynold 60 Kath. x

I really don't know if he was in the forces. You are quite right of course, his Father could have been a Butcher anywhere, pity there is no way of doing a search for occupations. Before I was poorly I turned a John Reed up who was a Butcher in Flint, N Wales, but regrettably I have lost where I found him. Not a lot of good am I ? Also when I was doing my innumerable searches for Samuel one kept coming up in Ashton Under Lyme born in 1864, I suppose that could have been him, so frustrating as it is his Mum and Dad I need and then go back from them x

I can't find his death in 1918. Would he have been in the forces during the war? Just because he lived in Lancashire doesn't mean he was born there. My grandfather lived in County Durham all his life and gives this as his place of birth on his army records, but he was actually born in London, and moved north when he was small. I think a lot of people moved to London in the 1800's looing for work. Kath. x

Kathleen I believe he died in 1918 could have been Liverpool or Wallasey..I again can't find him, I've heard of skeletons in cupboards, looks like I have a ghost '''

Thanks Kathleen. It is a complete mystery. My cousin who is a Reed found his birth date somewhere as 1864, but I have tried everywhere, and Lorraine has also tried with no success, the marriage cert states he was 37 in 1900, but I have tried all years around rhis date and he just doesn't come up. I have tried Ancestry, LDS and all over but nope. I am sure he was born in Liverpool and he was a Pawnbroker. (rich man in those days ) !!! He was married before and his date of birth then was 1862. A real puzzle this one. He is on 1901 census in Liverpool. x

I have looked through Ancestry's Complete Birth Index (not FreeBMD), for 1862, 1863 and 1864 and this is the only Samuel George Reed registered in those years:- Samuel George Reed March qtr. 1863, Poplar, 1c, 656 Kath. x

Thanks Lorraine.

ok donald i ll do a trawl through as well - another pair of eyes and all that. im off out now but ill get back to you later if that is ok. lorraine

Possible I may be wrong on this marraiage cert states age as 37, I have been away from this for months now with illness, can't remember where I got the 1864 from, but just found papers which say he was married before and his birth year here is given as 1862, but whenever I have put that year in I have got nothing

right donald ive had a look too and i cant see anything even looked at reid just in case. Can i ask how do u know his date of birth - could it be wrong ???

Thanks Lorraine. Yes He was born 1 May 1864 Liverpool but I have searched everywhere but can't find it

Donald have u got the birth cert for samuel yet - that would give both parents and an address. u should be able to work out samuels year of birth from the marriage cert - then use freebmd to search for him that way. if u give me the age i ll have a look for u. lorraine

I am at a standstill. I have marriage certificate of the above to Hannah Elizabeth Reynolds (sometimes spelt Renolds) at West Derby Liverpool on 6th June 1901. It shows his Father as John Reed, deceased Butcher, but I can't get back from him or details of his Wife or anything. Any ideas would be most welcome Thanks Don