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Hi Wendy, glad we could help. Did you find out if they divorced or if John George died? Georgina.

Glad its been solved Wendy. Marie

To Marie & Georgina. Just wanted to say thank you to you both for making me look into this puzzle from a different angle as the Alice you bothncame across is in fact the correct one!!!!!! I called the register office today to order a certificate and am going to pick it up tomorrow but so i didnt waste a journey I asked her to confirm Alice's maiden name which is Robinson and Alice's fathers name which was also correct. So a huge thank you as without you 2 i would probably never have considered this option. I did look at Alice re-marrying in the past but never thought about her marrying someone with the same name as her maiden name therefore if I had come across this record i would probably never have given it a second thought and I am sure I must have come across it before. Thank you again Wendy

Hi Wendy, I found the marriage between Alice Pinder & John Robinson on freeBMD, just put in Alice Pinder & click marriage, dont put any dates. Georgina.

Hey georgina How did you find the marriage I have looked on bdm but with no luck Wendy Can anyone help me find john george Pinder on 1861 or 1871 census born 1820 Sheffield Thank you

Hi Sue. I just sent you a personal reply. Oops!! Just to say thanks I think you could be correct but still puzzled as to why i cant find him on either the 1861 or 1871 census. Wendy

Hi Wendy, England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1983 about John George Pinder Name: John George Pinder Estimated Birth Year: abt 1819 Year of Registration: 1883 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec Age at Death: 64 District: Sheffield County: United Kingdom Volume: 9c Page: 325 (click to see others on page) View Image could this possibly be the one and same John George, all the best sue

Georgina, Can I ask how you found the marriage of Alice PInder as I've looked on the birth marriage and death website and she doen't come up at all. Thanks Wendy

Georgina. You most definately have a point and I think you could be correct with the re-marriage. I will definately have to send for the marriage certificate to find out. As for John George though he was still alive as he appears on the 1881 census in Lincolnshire I will let you know Wendy

Wendy I know the age for John in the 1861 census I found was wrong but is there any chance that John George could have died & Alice remarried a John Robinson & it's him we are seeing in 1861? Marriages Dec 1856 Pinder Alice Leeds 9b 344 Robinson John Leeds 9b 344 Welldrake Rebecca Leeds 9b 344 Whitaker George Leeds 9b 344 UPDATE On the 1861 census I found above, there is an 18 year old Joseph Robinson who is brother-in-law, this could be Alice's brother? Georgina.

Don't know when Alice died no that would be interesting as well as I dont where she died either as Ive lost them on the census. Wendy

do you know when his wife Alice died??

Yes I think that is Selina. It will give me something to look at now. I would love anyone to find John George still. Thanks for that Wendy

could this be Selina??? 1871 England Census about Selina Kershaw Name: Selina Kershaw Age: 22 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849 Relation: Wife Spouse's name: Amos Gender: Female Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Leeds Ecclesiastical parish: St Barnabas Town: Hunslet County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View Image Registration district: Hunslet Sub-registration district: Hunslet ED, institution, or vessel: 32 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 92 Household Members: Name Age Albert Edward 5 months Alice Kershaw 3 Amos Kershaw 26 Selina Kershaw 22 Mary Ann Wadsworth 18 Yorkshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1866 Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference PINDER Selina KERSHAW Amos Holbeck District Registered Building Leeds HOLBECKRB/1/128

nudge

Hi Georgina, Yeah thanks for that one but it cant be the same family as the john & alice you have neither matches the dates of birth plus they are of the same age and that just isn't correct. Alice was born 1825 while John geore was born 1820. Although as far as i'm aware you do have the correct Elizabeth pinder which is john george's & Alice's daughter. She did apparently get married in Utah...Still no John George or alice for 1861 or 1871 though. Although i did find Alfred their son living in 1871 as a lodger in Leeds with a family of Waddington's It seems to pointto them being out of the country between these dates but I have no proof of that and would lkike to know for sure does anyone have access to the US census records at all??? Wendy

According to the 1880 US census Elizabeth's husband was twice her age... William C. TITT Self M Male W 70 ENG Works In C. Factory ENG ENG Elizabeth TITT Wife M Female W 35 ENG Keep House ENG ENG Alice TITT Dau S Female W 7 UT ENG ENG Eliza TITT Dau S Female W 4 UT ENG ENG Martha TITT Dau S Female W 2 UT ENG ENG Source Information: Census Place Washington, Washington, Utah Family History Library Film 1255339 NA Film Number T9-1339 Page Number 370A Georgina.

Wendy I know this is probably a longshot but could they be using Alice's maiden name in 1861? Name: Alice Robinson Age: 34 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1827 Relation: Wife Spouse's name: John Gender: Female Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Leeds Town: Leeds County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View Image Registration district: Leeds Sub-registration district: South East Leeds ED, institution, or vessel: 2 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 176 Household Members: Name Age Alfred Robinson 12 Alice Robinson 34 John Robinson 34 John W Robinson 8 Joseph Robinson 18 Selina Robinson 10 It looks like Elizabeth married in Utah in 1869, from the IGI... Elizabeth Pinder Female Event(s): Birth: 17 SEP 1845 Leeds, Yorkshire, England Christening: Death: 22 JAN 1899 Washington, Washington, Utah Burial: Parents: Father: John George Pinder F Mother: Alice Robinson Marriages: Spouse: William Case Titt Marriage: 08 DEC 1869 Beaver, Beaver, Utah Georgina.

have to go out for a while but will check back later.

Thanks Marie, It maks me chuckle cause ive looked and looked and looked and now I have square eyes. I know how easy it is to transcribe the wrong name as has happened with Alfred, John george's son. When he grew up and was married with a family himself. He appears as Rinder not pinder and then Alfreds son Harry became transcribed as pender so Iv'e been all over the place with this one. It is difficult because i would like to know what became of the family. Just thought maybe a fresh pair of eyes would be useful Thank you Wendy