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I am looking for Francis Allen born about 1825 in Bushey Hertfordshire.

He was widdowed when he married Mary Rosebrook in 1868. I would like to find him on a census before that and also would like details of his first marriage. His father was Thomas , a baker. I have looked through Ancestry and cannot find him - but I am not very good a t mistransciptions etc - I wonder if anyone else can help me ? Alice

For ref only...the marriage Francis Allen 1868 Apr-May-Jun Lambeth Greater London, London, Surrey Mary Northeast Rosebrook 1868 Apr-May-Jun Lambeth Greater London, London, Surrey Reg

1871 census............again for ref Name: Francis Allen Age: 46 Estimated birth year: abt 1825 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Mary Gender: Male Where born: Bushey, Hertfordshire, England Civil parish: Lambeth Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew County/Island: London Country: England Registration district: Lambeth Sub-registration district: Kennington Second ED, institution, or vessel: 18 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 81 Household Members: Name Age Francis Allen 46 James Allen 5 b. Stockwell, Surrey Mary Allen 28 b. Stanstead Reg

Possible baptism........ FRANCIS ALLEN Birth: Christening: 18 SEP 1822 Bushey, Hertford, England Father: THOMAS ALLEN Mother: MARY Reg

Hi Reggie Thank you for helping That does look like his baptism. Bushey is close to Watford so it is possible that he may say he is from there. I wondered if he may have been in the army and been away for a couple of census nights - but I cannot find him at all. He is alot older than his second wife - could have had more children from his first marriage. Alice

Just to confuse the issue he is saying born Clapham on the 1881 census. Frank Allen Age: 55 Estimated birth year: abt 1826 Relation: Son in Law Where born: Clapham, Middlesex, England Civil parish: Marylebone County/Island: London Street address: 32 Barrow Hill Rd Condition as to marriage: Married Occupation: Coachman Charles Allen 6 Born Middlesex, Clapham Frank Allen 55 Son in Law, Frank Allen 10 Born Middlesex, Clapham Mary Allen 36 Daughter, born Stanstead, Essex Esther Kerry 66 Head, Charwoman, Born Stanstead, Essex Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 161; Folio: 88; Page: 16; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341035. This lot have been enumerated twice in different addresses.....................1881 census (this time with little James who was on the 1871) 1881 again......... Frances Allen Age: 57 Estimated birth year: abt 1824 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Mary Where born: Stanwell, Middlesex, England Civil parish: Lambeth County/Island: London Street address: 1 Bedford Road Condition as to marriage: Married Occupation: Coachman (Dom) Charles Allen 7 Born Surrey, Stockwell Frances Allen 57 Head, Frank Allen 9 Born Surrey, Stockwell James Allen 14 Born Surrey, Stockwell Mary Allen 34 Born Stanstead, Essex Ester Herry 66 Mother in Law, Widowed Charwoman, Born Stanstead, Essex. Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 613; Folio: 111; Page: 50; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341141. Gail.

Alice. Is this him in 1881? If so he now says he was born in Middlesex, although I can't make out the place. 1 Bedford Row, Lambeth Frances Allen, head, 57, coachman, domestic, born Middlesex, Stanm??? Mary, wife, 34, born Middlesex, Stanstead James, son, 14, errand boy, born Surrey, Stockwell Frank, son, 9, scholar, born Stockwell Charles, son, 7, scholar, born Stockwell Ester Herry, wife M, widow, 66, chasery? woman, born Essex. Stanstead I presume wife M means wife's mother but I thought Mary was a Rosebrook. Her mother remarried? Margaret

Hi Margaret Take a look at the two censuses I have posted above and see what you think.... The image on the second one says Wife's Mother. Mary was a widow Rosebrook I presume.. Gail. x

Yes, Gail, I saw the 2 censuses that you had posted after I posted mine. It takes me too long to type them in and by the time I've posted it everyone has beaten me to the punch. Isn't that weird having them done twice on the census? Now you have presumed that Mary was a widow when she married and I have presumed that it was her mother who remarried. I guess we'll find out. Margaret

Hi there - sorry I forgot to check back. I am not 100% sure - but I think Ester was Mary's illegitimate daughter- then she married - then Mary married. The Bedford road address was where Francis died. It is a bit of a mystery why 2 census entries! He says Mary is his daughter on the first - I know he was married before and Mary was definitely born in Stansted - so I guess that is just an error! He changes his mind so much - it is difficult to imagine where he may say he was born pre 1871! No wonder he cannot be found! Thanks for your help Alice

I have looked up the Bushey marriages.Only goes up to 1837 but too early for his marriage and so i looked for Thomas his father but he did not seem to get married there.I saw no Allens. Annie

Thank you for that Annie, they are proving difficult to trace to say the least ! Alice x

Alice looked again and i have found 2 marriages that might be Thomas's brothers.Joshua Allen married Eliz Bray 14th May 1826 and William Allen married a Charlotte Brutch 1st July 1833.There are quite a few in Rickmansworth as well. Annie

Just to clarify on the first 1881 census it has Esther Kerry as the head so Mary being down as daughter relates to her as the head, not to Francis who is Esther's son in law - on the second one Francis is down as Head............. Also Margaret was right as this seems to be the marriage between Esther Rosebrook and James Kerry. James Kerry 1866 Q4 1a 901 Marylebone, London Esther Rosebrook Gail. x

Ester's maiden name was Rosebrook. Mary's maiden name was Mary Northeast Rosebrook . Thank you all for spending your time on this - still not sure where Francis Allen spent 30 years of his life! Maybe he is mistranscribed somewhere - or in the workhouse and only recorded by initials - or in the army abroad. Whatever he was doing - he is driving me crazy! Thanks again Gail - they could well be related - will chase them around on the census and see if they know where they were born? May help with Francis .