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Hello ErikaH
Framsden to Sotherton is about 23-25 miles away, that is why it seem a long distance to come to look after children? Yes you might well be right.

Why does there have to be ANY connection?

Just someone helping out with the children while his wife was earning some money elsewhere……………

If you are happy thinking the woman with Jeremiah became Mrs Fenn, so be it, but you will be unlikely ever to prove it. Sorry, but one has to be realistic

Evening ErikaH
I see you have been busy.

1871 Census New North Road Islington
Henry Fenn Head Birth 1819 Age 52 Woodbridge Suffolk Boot Maker
Lydia Fenn Wife Birth 1813 Age 58 Sotherton Suffolk

1881 Census New North Road Islington
Henry Fenn Head Birth 1819 Age 62 Woodbridge Suffolk Boot Maker
Lydia Fenn Wife Birth 1813 Age 68 Southerton Suffolk

Henry Fenn Death 1884 Islington London Age 65
Lydia Fenn Death 1890 Islington London Age 79
I still think I have the right Lydia based on the 1871 & 1881 Census.
I would still like to know what connection Lydia and Jeremiah had, perhaps we could still find out. Thanks for your help so far.

???

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Market Place, Halesworth, Blything, Suffolk, England
Thomas Cracknell Head Widower Male 61 1790 Brewer malster spirit m and farmer Fressingfield, Suffolk, England
Cecelia Nunn Visitor Unmarried Female 43 1808 Annuitant Lambeth, Surrey, England
Sarah Engall Servant Unmarried Female 30 1821 House servt Norwich, Norfolk, England
Lydia Sharman Servant Unmarried Female 34 1817 House servt Beccles, Suffolk, England
Frances Hill Servant Unmarried Female 17 1834 House servt Wickham Market, Suffolk, England

This MAY (or may not) be the baptism of whichever of the women didn't marry Fenn..................

Which one she is in 1841 is anyone’s guess

First name(s) Lydia
Country England
Last name Sharman
Archive The National Archives
Birth year 1815
Series title General Register Office: Registers Of Births, Marriages And Deaths Surrendered To The Non-Parochial Registers Commissions Of 1837 And 1857.
Birth date 19 Sep 1815
Series RG 4
Baptism year 1816
Archive reference TNA/RG/4/2961
Baptism date 04 Oct 1816
Piece description SUFFOLK: Beccles (Independent): Births & Baptisms
Place Beccles
Record set England & Wales Non-Conformist Births And Baptisms
Denomination Independent
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Father's first name(s) Robert
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Mother's first name(s) Dinah
Collections from Great Britain, England
County Suffolk

Siblings
Elizabeth
Sharman
1820
1820
Robert
Beccles
Independent

Samuel
Sharman
1817
1818
Robert
Beccles
Independent

William
Sharman
1821
1821
Robert
Beccles
Independent

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Frostenden, Blything, Suffolk, England
Robert Sharman Male 45 1796 Suffolk, England
Diana Sharman Female 45 1796 Suffolk, England
Alfred Sharman Male 13 1828 Suffolk, England
Anna Maria Sharman Female 12 1829 Suffolk, England
Louisa Sharman Female 10 1831 Suffolk, England
Amelia Sharman Female 9 1832 Suffolk, England
David Sharman Male 7 1834 Suffolk, England
Henry Sharman Male 5 1836 Suffolk, England
George Sharman Male 4 1837 Suffolk, England
Diana Springer Female 75 1766

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Clay Common, Frostenden, Blything, Suffolk, England
Robert Sharman Head Married Male 56 1795 Brick maker Uggeshall, Suffolk, England
Dianah Sharman Wife Married Female 52 1799 - Essex, England
Amelia Sharman Daughter Unmarried Female 17 1834 - Frostenden, Suffolk, England
David Sharman Son Unmarried Male 16 1835 Brick maker Frostenden, Suffolk, England
Mary Anne Sharman Grand daughter - Female 3 1848 - Yarmouth, Norfolk, England
Henry Sharman Son - Male 15 1836 - Frostenden, Suffolk, England



1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census
The Grove, Frostenden, Blything, Suffolk, England
Robert Sharman Head Married Male 66 1795 Brick maker Uggeshall, Suffolk, England
Dinah Sharman Wife Married Female 64 1797 - Suffolk, England
Maryann Sharman Granddaughter Unmarried Female 13 1848 - Great Yarmouth, Norfolk, England

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Frostenden, Blything, Suffolk, England
Samuel Sharman Head Married Male 63 1818 Brick maker Beccles, Suffolk, England
Eliza Sharman Wife Married Female 59 1822 - Essex, England
Dinah Sharman Mother Widow Female 84 1797 - Colchester, Essex, England

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Sotherton, Blything, Suffolk, England

Edward Sharman Male 50 1791 Suffolk, England
Hannah Sharman Female 45 1796 Suffolk, England
Edward Sharman Male 15 1826 Suffolk, England
Jerman Sharman Male 14 1827 Suffolk, England
Susannah Sharman Female 12 1829 Suffolk, England
Nehemiah Sharman Male 11 1830 Suffolk, England
Hezekiah Sharman Male 8 1833 Suffolk, England
Annia Sharman Female 6 1835 Suffolk, England
Emma Sharman Female 6 1835 Suffolk, England

You seem to have decided, with no evidential backup, that the woman in the same abode as Jeremiah is the one who married Fenn.

There are two women of the same name and age in Suffolk in 1841 - either one of them could be the 1843 bride. You will never be able to determine which, as 1841 does NOT record birthplaces.

Some things are just impossible to prove, and we have to accept it.

There are so many reasons why someone is living at someone’s else’s home.

His paramour.
Helping with children.
Mothers help.
Needing a spare bed because of problems at home.
Being put up as not wanted ( as a single woman/ girl)at home as mother has a new baby ( from my own tree).
Lodger.

and so on.

You will probably never find out the why.

The marriage certificate do state full age. Married December 31st 1843. Yes Lydia is down as a spinster. Henry Fenn father was Robert who was a Boot Maker.

Hello ErikaH

Jeremiah's wife Eliza was working for the Buck family at Cretingham Hall when the census was done in 1841. Next village up from Framsden. I did see the other Lydia from Southwold but the one from Sotherton match up with her father named Edward. The other Lydia I don't know her fathers name as of yet. The children at Framsden were all Eliza's. I don't know how Lydia is connected to Jeremiah but would like to find out. If there was no connection why was she at the Mill? Yes it possibly could be a mistake but not giving up trying to find out just yet. I would like to thank you for your help on this and hopefully we can work it out.

FENN, HENRY (MMN) SHARMAN
GRO Reference: 1846 M Quarter in SAINT PANCRAS Volume 01 Page 275

FENN, JOHN SHARMAN
GRO Reference: 1848 M Quarter in ST GILES IN THE FIELDS & ST GEORGE BLOOMSBURY Volume 01 Page 59

FENN, EMILY SHARMAN
GRO Reference: 1844 J Quarter in SAINT PANCRAS Volume 01 Page 263

FENN, ROBERT SHARMAN
GRO Reference: 1843 M Quarter in SAINT PANCRAS Volume 01 Page 282

First name(s) Edward
Last name Sharman
Spouse's first name(s) Hannah
Spouse's last name Francis************************************
Name note -
Spouse's age -
Marriage year 1812
Record set England Marriages 1538-1973
Marriage date 31 Aug 1812
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Marriage place Brampton St Peter
Subcategory Parish Marriages
County Suffolk
Collections from England, Great Britain
Country England

First name(s) Lydia
Denomination Anglican
Last name Sharman
County Suffolk
Baptism year 1812
Country England
Baptism date 07 Dec 1812
Archive Suffolk Archives
Place Sotherton, St Andrew
Archive reference Parish Registers & Bishops Transcripts
Relationship Daughter
Entry number 40/2
Father's first name(s) Edward
Record set Suffolk Baptism Index 1538-1911
Mother's first name(s) Hannah
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Notes bn 3 Dec; pb; recd 29 May 1814 / late FRANCIS
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Dedication St Andrew

She married as Sharman...........................................

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Lower Queen Street, Saint Mary?S Islington, Islington, London & Middlesex, England
Henry Fenn Head Married Male 30 1821 Boot maker Woodbridge, Suffolk, England
Lydia Fenn Wife Married Female 38 1813 - Suffolk, England
Robert Fenn Son Unmarried Male 8 1843 - Somerton, Middlesex, England
Emily Fenn Daughter Unmarried Female 6 1845 - Somerton, Middlesex, England
Henry Fenn Son Unmarried Male 5 1846 - Somerton, Middlesex, England
John Fenn Son Unmarried Male 1 1850 - Islington, Middlesex, England

First name(s) Emma
Father's first name(s) Jeremiah
Last name Sharman
Father's last name Sharman
Sex Female
Mother's first name(s) Eliza
Baptism year 1856
Record set England Births & Baptisms 1538-1975
Baptism date 16 Oct 1856
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Place -
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
County Suffolk
Collections from England, Great Britain
Country England


First name(s) George
Notes bn 12 Dec 1855; pb
Last name Sharman
Dedication St Peter
Baptism year 1856
County Suffolk
Baptism date 16 Oct 1856
Country England
Place Cretingham, St Peter
Entry number 380
Father's first name(s) Jeremiah
Record set Suffolk Baptism Index 1538-1911
Father's occupation Labourer
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Mother's first name(s) Eliza
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Residence Framsden

First name(s) James
Father's first name(s) Jeremiah
Last name Sharman
Father's occupation Labourer
Birth year 1836
Mothers first name(s) Eliza
Baptism year 1836
Residence Framsden
Baptism date 20 Oct 1836
Source Suffolk Baptism Index (Part 3)
Parish Framsden, St Mary
Entry number 342
Place Framsden
Record set Suffolk Baptism Index 1538-1911
County Suffolk
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Country England
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Relationship Son

FMP shows I've looked before at the 1836 baptism..........................must be another thread

ADDED......yes, there is!!

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1378721

AND.................

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1336783

Not directly connected to Lydia, but...........................

OK......done some research!



First name(s) Jeremiah
County Suffolk
Last name Sherman
Country England
Marriage year 1833
Record set Suffolk Marriage Index
Marriage date 29 Dec 1833
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Marriage place Otley
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Spouse's first name(s) Eliza
Collections from England, Great Britain
Spouse's last name Fulcher

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Mill, Framsden, Bosmere & Claydon, Suffolk, England
Jeremiah Sharman Male 30 1811 Suffolk, England
Lydia Sharman Female 25 1816 Suffolk, England
William Sharman Male 6 1835 Suffolk, England
James Sharman Male 4 1837 Suffolk, England
Eliza Sharman Female 3 1838 Suffolk, England
Sarah Sharman Female 1 1840 Suffolk, England


1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Fair Field, Framsden, Bosmere, Suffolk, England

Jeremiah Sharman Head Married Male 40 1811 Ag lab Framsden, Suffolk, England
Eliza Sharman Wife Married Female 38 1813 Ag lab wife Otley, Suffolk, England
James Sharman Son Unmarried Male 14 1837 Ag lab son Framsden, Suffolk, England
Eliza Sharman Daughter Unmarried Female 12 1839 Scholar Framsden, Suffolk, England
Sarah Sharman Daughter Unmarried Female 11 1840 Ag lab dau Framsden, Suffolk, England
Emma Sharman Daughter Unmarried Female 8 1843 Ag lab dau Framsden, Suffolk, England
Charles Sharman Son Unmarried Male 5 1846 Ag lab son Framsden, Suffolk, England

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Framsden, Bosmere, Suffolk, England
Jeremiah Sherman Head Married Male 50 1811 Ag lab Framsden, Suffolk, England
Elizar Sherman Wife Married Female 48 1813 - Otley, Suffolk, England
Charles Sherman Son Unmarried Male 14 1847 Farmers wife Framsden, Suffolk, England
George Sherman Son - Male 4 1857 Scholar Framsden, Suffolk, England
Charlotte Sherman Granddaughter - Female 1 1860 - Framsden, Suffolk, England

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Tyes Farm Cottage, Framsden, Bosmere, Suffolk, England
Jeremiah Sherman Head - Male 62 1809 Ag lab Framsden, Suffolk, England
Eliza Sherman Wife - Female 58 1813 - Otley, Suffolk, England
George Sherman Son - Male 15 1856 Shoemakers apprentice Framsden, Suffolk, England
Charlotte Sherman Granddaughter - Female 11 1860 Dress makers apprentice Framsden, Suffolk, England


******I would suggest that 'LYDIA' in 1841 is an error, copied from the original by an enumerator who couldn't read his own writing*********

The woman who married in 1843 could be this one................

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
High Street, Southwold, Blything, Suffolk, England
William Crisp Male 55 1786 Suffolk, England
Mary Ann Crisp Female 45 1796 Suffolk, England
Matilda Crisp Female 30 1811 Suffolk, England
Ann Crisp Female 30 1811 Suffolk, England
Mary Crisp Female 20 1821 Suffolk, England
Alfred Crisp Male 9 1832 Suffolk, England
Lydia Sharman Female 25 1816 Suffolk, England
Mary Eves Female 20 1821 Suffolk, England

As I mentioned earlier, she is a Female Servant

If she was a spinster when she married, she’s unlikely to be the woman living with Jeremiah and four children, unless you KNOW that the children were not hers.

The marriage cert proves nothing other than her name and her father’s name. What was the other info about her? Address and occupation……presumably her age was just ‘full’

I have a copy of the marriage certificate and it states her father was called Edward who was a labourer.

Looking at the census there are also 4 children in the household. She is listed immediately after Jeremiah - not after the children.

How have you PROVED that the woman who married in London is the same person?

There is another woman of the same name and age on 1841 in Southwold….a servant

In the 1841 census it state that Lydia was staying at Framsden with Jeremiah Sherman/Sharman. I would like to know how she was related to Jeremiah but cannot find any links. I only know that she appeared to be from Sotherton in Suffolk. Her parents were Edward and Hannah. I know that she married a Henry Fenn in St Pancreas London on the 31st December 1843. Lydia died in 1890 in Islington London, she had 4 children with her husband. I would like to know how she is linked to Jeremiah. Thanks for any help in trying to solve this.