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Trying to find Frederick or Fred Holmes born 1902 Sculcoates Yorkshire his parents are Fred Holmes bn 1870 and Jane nee Abbott bn 1868 I can’t find him on 1911 1921 and 1939 he married Eileen Zurch 1939 Hull, family say he may of been married before this lady ? Many thanks

Where have you been looking?
All easily found on Ancestry.

Fred Holmes
in the 1921 England Census
Name Fred Holmes
Gender Male
Marital Status Single
Age 18 Years 8 Months
Relation to Head Son
Estimated Birth Year 1902
Birth Place Hull, Yorkshire, England
Residence Date 1921
Residence Street Address Pearsons Institute, New Cleveland St
Residence Place Sculcoates, Yorkshire (East Riding), England
Occupation Electrician
Occupation Code 307/6
Employer Employer
Employer Code 163
Place of Work Humber Electrician, 45 Portland Place, Hull
Inhabited Y
Ward Drypool
Parliamentary Division Kingston Upon Hull Pb, East Div.
Registration District Sculcoates
Registration District Number 521
Sub registration district Drypool
Sub Registration District Number 6
Respondent Fred Holmes
Enumeration District Name Kingston Upon Hull Cb
Enumeration District 27
Schedule 14
Schedule Type Code E
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Fred Holmes 50 Years 8 Months Head
Jane Grey Holmes 53 Years 1 Month Wife
Jessie Victoria Holmes 20 Years 6 Months Daughter
Fred Holmes 18 Years 8 Months Son
Ivy Day 32 Servant
Edward Cook 39 Years 6 Months Lodger
Willie Steward 30 Years 2 Months Lodger



HOLMES, JESSIE VICTORIA mmn ABBOTT
GRO Reference: 1901 M Quarter in SCULCOATES Volume 09D Page 192

HOLMES, FRED mmn ABBOTT
GRO Reference: 1902 D Quarter in SCULCOATES Volume 09D Page 203

Lots of mistranscriptions on Ancestry for 1911 census:

Fred Hollis
in the 1911 England Census
Name Fred Hollis [Holmes]
Age in 1911 8
Estimated Birth Year abt 1903
Relation to Head Daughter [Son]
Gender Female [Male ]
Birth Place Hull
Civil parish Sculcoates
County/Island Yorkshire-East Riding
Country England
Street Address 41 Penning St Groves Hull
Registration District Number 521
Sub-registration district Drypool
ED, institution, or vessel 23
Piece 28680
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Fred Hollis 42 Head
Jane Gray Hollis 42 Wife
Minnie Hollis 14 Daughter
Terrie [Jessie ] Hollis 10 Daughter
Fred Hollis 8 Daughter [Son ]
William Smales 27 Boarder
Edith Courtis 21 Boarder

Fred Holmes
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name Fred Holmes
Gender Male
Marital Status Married
Birth Date 27 Oct 1902
Residence Date 1939
Address 5
Residence Place Scarborough, Yorkshire (North Riding), England
Occupation Wireless Operator, ??
Line Number 41
Schedule Number 3??
Sub Schedule Number 1
Enumeration District Jgob
Borough Scarborough
Inferred Spouse
Eileen C Holmes
Household Members (Name) Gender Birth Year
Fred Holmes Male 1902
Eileen C Holmes Female 1913
Jane G Holmes Female 1868
This record is officially closed.

Get the 1939 marriage cert to find out if Fred had been married before or not.


One of two possible previous marriages. [NOTE: Suggestion ONLY ]
Marriage cert needed to be sure.

Marriages Dec 1933
Dowd Violet A Holmes Sculcoates 9d 492
Holmes Fred Dowd Sculcoates 9d 492

Violet A Holmes
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name Violet A Holmes [Violet A Bull]
Gender Female
Marital Status Married
Birth Date Mar 1915
Residence Date 1939
Address 17
Residence Place Haltemprice, Yorkshire (East Riding), England
Occupation Unpaid Domestic Duties
Line Number 26
Schedule Number 17
Sub Schedule Number 1
Enumeration District Jbfm
Borough Haltemprice
Registration District 520-4
Household Members (Name) Gender Birth Year
Violet A Holmes Female 1915
This record is officially closed.
This record is officially closed.

The two closed records are their children, born 1936 and 1937.

Violet's remarriage:

Violet A Holmes
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name Violet A Holmes
Registration Date Feb 1985 [Feb] [1985]
Registration District Grimsby
Inferred County Humberside
Spouse Rowland H Bull
Volume Number 7
Page number 270


Rowland's death, very soon after the marriage ??:

Rowland Harry Bull
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name Rowland Harry Bull
Death Age 73
Birth Date 26 May 1911
Registration Date Apr 1985
Registration District Louth
Inferred County Lincolnshire
Volume 7
Page 1920



DOWD, VIOLET ANN mmn LYONS
GRO Reference: 1915 J Quarter in SCULCOATES Volume 09D Page 358

Thankyou

An alternative possible earlier marriage for Fred:

[EDIT: NO, NOT THIS ONE ]


Marriages Sep 1928 (>99%)
Braithwaite Margaret Holmes Sculcoates 9d 570
Holmes Fred Braithwaite Sculcoates 9d 570

No sign of this couple in 1939, and they didn't have any children - unless perhaps Margaret had been married before.


ADDED:

This looks like that couple in 1939, in which case this is NOT your Fred:

Fred Holmes
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name Fred Holmes
Gender Male
Marital Status Married
Birth Date 22 Jan 1890
Residence Date 1939
Address 12
Residence Place Kingston-Upon-Hull, Yorkshire (East Riding), England
Occupation Metal Broker's Labourer-Heavy ??
Line Number 29
Schedule Number 89
Sub Schedule Number 1
Enumeration District Janb
Borough Kingston-Upon-Hull
Registration District 522. 3
Inferred Spouse
Margaret Holmes
Inferred Children
Frace Holmes
Household Members (Name) Gender Birth Year
Fred Holmes Male 1890
Margaret Holmes Female 1892
Frace [Horace ] Holmes Male 1922



Birth of the son Horace

Braithwaite Horace H [mmn Higgins] Sculcoates 9d 367


Margaret's first marriage:

Marriages Sep 1913 (>99%)
Braithwaite Ernest Higgins Sculcoates 9d 417
Higgins Margaret Braithwaite Sculcoates 9d 417

Marriages Mar 1939
Holmes Fred Zurck Hull 9d 365 Littleover

Postems for this entry:
24/12/2019 GRO error. Spouse is Eileen Chatfield ZWICK.


England & Wales Government Probate Death Index 1858-2019
Scarborough, Yorkshire, England

First name(s) Fred
County Yorkshire
Last name Holmes
Country England
Death year 1952
Linked persons >>Eileen Chatfield Holmes<<
Death date 08 Jun 1952
Record set England & Wales Government Probate Death Index 1858-2019
Probate year 1952
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Probate date 07 Oct 1952
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
Probate registry York
Collections from Great Britain, England
Residence town Scarborough

Eileen Chatfield Holmes
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name Eileen Chatfield Holmes
Death Age 88
Birth Date 11 Mar 1915
Registration Date Sep 2003
Registration District Cheltenham
Inferred County Gloucestershire
Register Number A65D
District and Subdistrict 479/1A
Entry Number 237

There is this entry on Familysearch..... Would need verification

https://ancestors.familysearch.org/en/MCK4-PH6/eileen-c.-zwick-1915-2003

A tree on Ancestry - well-documented - makes no mention of a marriage other than that to Eileen.

By 1947, he and Eileen had 3 children...... born in Bermuda, where he had been stationed. He (and family) returned to UK in 1947. Record on Ancestry
Their births are on FMP

In 1933, Fred arrived in New York aboard a vessel on which he was employed as Wireless Operator, having been thus employed for 6 years. No record of marital status

That's a good find Gwyn...I always feel more connected when there are photos to go with the names.

Name Philip Andrew Holmes
Gender Male
Birth Date 10 Mar 1946
Death Date 27 Nov 2002
Cemetery Anlaby Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place Anlaby, East Riding of Yorkshire Unitary Authority, East Riding of Yorkshire, England


Name Robert Edward Holmes
Gender Male
Death Age 68
Birth Date abt 1941
Birth Place Bermuda
Marriage Date 1965
Residence Place Manor Farm, Bainton
Death Date 9 Feb 2009
Burial Date 17 Feb
Obituary Date 27 Feb 2009
Spouse Maureen
Child Lewis

HOLMES, ROBERT EDWARD 1940
GRO Reference: DOR Q1/2009 in EAST RIDING OF YORKSHIRE (5411L) Reg 1L001 Entry Number 501549478

Fred and Eileen's daughter's name: Marjorie Ann

Details of service (1928-1933) are on the image on FMP

First name(s) Fred
Archive The National Archives
Last name Holmes
Series BT348
Birth year -
Piece number 1
Birth place -
Date range 1921-1941
Birth county/country -
Record set Britain, Merchant Seamen, 1918-1941
Event year 1921
Category Education & work
Discharge number R 55014
Subcategory Merchant Navy & Maritime
Card type CR2
Collections from Great Britain, UK None

His birth.............you didn't need to be unsure of forename

HOLMES, FRED ABBOTT
GRO Reference: 1902 D Quarter in SCULCOATES Volume 09D Page 203

Wow many many thanks you all are amazing ..