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Thank you mgnv

Will study all this

My family seemed to have the "clog market" sown up

David

1891 England Census Transcription
Street:20 WELLINGTON STREET
Parish:WIGAN
Town:
City:WIGAN
County:Lancashire
Ecclesiastical District:ST CATHERINES
Municipal Ward:ST PATRICKS
Parliamentary Borough:WIGAN
Registration District:WIGAN
Registration Sub-District 3C Wigan
Enumeration District:17
Archive Reference:RG12 Piece Number:3051 Folio:79 Page:23

MARGRET ROSCOE 1864 27 Wigan, Lancashire HEAD S Housekeeper
MARY ROSCOE 1866 25 Wigan, Lancashire SISTER S Cotton Weaver
JAMES ROSCOE 1871 20 Wigan, Lancashire BROTHER S Clogger
JOHN HORNER 1859 32 Wigan, Lancashire HALF BROTHER S Clogger
ELEANOR TURNER 1859 32 Wigan, Lancashire HALF SISTER S Cotton Weaver
EDWARD LEES 1860 31 Ashton-under-Lyne, Lancashire BOARDER S Clog Iron Maker

http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/stuff/cemetery.php?opt=cemetery
Surname Forename Age Place of Death Date Year Notes Grave Cremation Religion
Horner John 43 yrs 140 Hardybutts St. 10-Feb 1861 H 382 C of E
Horner Charles 7 mo 140 Hardybutts 27-Mar 1861 H 382 C of E
Horner John 33 yrs 20 ? Wellington St. 01-Jun 1891 H 382 C of E
Roscoe James 55 Yrs Woodhouse Lane 25-Mar 1926 H 382 C of E
Formby Herbert. 13 Mths Harrogate >>> 25-May 1927 Douglas St H 382 C of E
Roscoe Dinah 80 Yrs Barnsley St >>> 24-Jan 1951 Infirmary H 382 C of E
-------------------------
Roscoe Edward 48 Yrs Wellington St 08-Oct 1884 G 427 * R C
-------------------------
Roscoe Ellen Theresa 57 yrs 21 Wellington St. 29-Apr 1889 F 632a * R C

NB Date = date of burial; * indicates probable common grave

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1860
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
HORNER Charles Wigan Wigan & Leigh GAYNOR WIG/60/320

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1862
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
HORNER Eleanor Teresa ROSCOE Edward Wigan, Register Office or Registrar Attended Wigan & Leigh ROW/17/54

Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1884
Surname Forename(s) Age Sub-District Registers At Reference
ROSCOE Edward 47 Wigan Wigan & Leigh WIG/108/98

Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1889
Surname Forename(s) Age Sub-District Registers At Reference
ROSCOE Ellen Theresa 57 Wigan Wigan & Leigh WIG/120/178

you are welcome David

and thank you for taking on board the tip about spacing your info

Most grateful to everyone for all the history.

Will now study and update my tree.

Will tell Aunty Mary what you have researched about her grandma and our family.

Thank you.

David

that's beginning to fit together quite nicely

as there is no birth for an Elizabeth mmn Gaynor in 1851/52 I wonder if the Elizabeth on the 1861 census is actually Ann/Hannah. Mary Ann died as an infant

groom's name: John Horner
groom's birth date:
groom's birthplace:
groom's age:
bride's name: Eleanor Tereza Gaynor
bride's birth date:
bride's birthplace:
bride's age:
marriage date: 23 Jan 1850
marriage place: Monkstown, Dub, Ire
groom's father's name: Benjamin Horner
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name: John George Gaynor
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status:
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status:
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number: M70202-9
system origin: Ireland-VR
source film number: 101320
reference number: 2:3R6284R

Eleanor Tereza Gaynor married John Horner 1850 in Rathbone Ireland.

John Horner died Wigan J/F/M 1861 8c 30

Maryb

there is a tree on ancestry which has these children linked to the Roscow family (though they do have them down as born in Ireland when the census data says Wigan)

this is the 1861 they have, living in Wigan

Eleanor T Horner 31 - widowed maufacturer of cordials born Ireland
Elizabeth Horner 9
John Horner 5
Eleanor T Horner 3

children born Wigan

I wonder if Hannah (Ann on most census) is this one born in 1851 - only guessing from the name of the child born in 1858 which seems to be the same as Ann's mother

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1851
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
HORNER Ann Wigan Wigan & Leigh GAYNOR WIG/33/138

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1853
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
HORNER Mary Ann Wigan Wigan & Leigh GAYNOR WIG/39/103

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1855
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
HORNER John Wigan Wigan & Leigh GAYNOR WIG/43/454

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1858
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
HORNER Eleanor Teresa Wigan Wigan & Leigh GAYNOR WIG/52/206

With this information just rang my aunty Mary who is my only senior relative now around

She remembers thinks when prompted

She says Ann was her great grandma and was from Ireland and had a bad limp

Safc listed she had a disability

She also said Orange Men came to collect her husbands body Robert Coyle when he died

I have now learned so much today, thank you so much for helping to fill in my history

David

Ann always seems to be born in Wigan not Ireland, but birth registration was not compulsory in the 1850's

Ellen varies with Ireland and Wigan - given name on marriage Eleanor Theresa irish descent sounds possible

not found John Horner

Sorry about the essay, point taken.

So Ann, Ellen and John Horner born Ireland and thats why I did not find

Thank you for advice and information

David

name: Ann Horner (Roacoe)
age: 24
gender: Female
birth year: 1857
birthplace: Wigan, Lancashire, England
relationship to head of household: Step Daughter
marital condition: Single
profession/occupation: Weaver Cotton
address: 23 Lower Morris St
census place: Wigan, Lancashire, England
disability:
record type: Household
family history library film: 1341900
the national archives reference: RG11
piece/folio: 3762 / 11
page number: 16
Household Gender Age Birthplace
head Edward Roscoe M 46 Wigan, Lancashire, England
wife Elenor Roscoe F 47 Ireland
daughter Margaret Roscoe F 17 Wigan, Lancashire, England
daughter Mary Roscoe F 15 Wigan, Lancashire, England
son James Roscoe M 10 Wigan, Lancashire, England
step daughter Ann Horner (Roacoe) F 24 Wigan, Lancashire, England

this looks like the same family in 1871 but Ann down as Roscow (Roscoe) and Ellen (Eleanor) now as born in Wigan - Ireland in 1881

Edward Roscow 35
Ellen Roscow 36
Ann Roscow 19 - weaver
Ellen Roscow 13
John Roscow 15
Margret Roscow 9
Mary Roscow 6
James Roscow 1

a tip David

to make it easier to read please could you in the future separate your different pices of information in your post with a blank line between as it makes it easier to read

eg
my ggg.....

married....

Mary Coyle etc

posting for info Hannah as stepdaughter in 1881

Edward Roscoe 46
Elenor Roscoe 47
Margaret Roscoe 17
Mary Roscoe 15
James Roscoe 10
Ann Horner 24 - weaver

My GG Grandmother Hannah wedding cert 13/10/1887 spinster 31 no job listed, signed with a mark, father John Horner deceased grocer she lived in Upper Morris Street, Scholes Wigan , a tough area with a large Irish community. Married Robert Coyle 32 a clogger, lived in Lower Morris St ,father deceased Thomas a weaver. Know all about them both after wedding her dob ranged 1856 to 1860 and names of Ann, Anne and Annie. They had my Grandma Mary Coyle 1888. Know liitle about Hannah pre wed but witness was Margaret Roscoe dob1864 in 1881 census father Edward and mother Elenor (Ireland) and also in house my Ann Horner 24 stepdaughter born Wigan. Went on Lancs BBMD marriage 1862 Edward Roscoe and Eleanor Tereasa Horner( remarried) Wigan RO. Only other info ? 1911 Edward and Elizabeth ? pop up in St Helens who may be a match. Spent tens of hours on this and trail gone cold. Grateful for any leads on Hannah pre wed, Eleanor and John Horner Thank you David