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If she died as Gertrude Hales in 1951, it seems she did not marry again.

Sorry did not mean to cause you all so much work - but the mystery still remains if this is the same Philip Henry

Is there any way I can find out if there is a death certificate for him in the UK ?

Gertude Lillian - our grandmother = reamiired we think to a chap called beckett - Wondered if that could be checked?

The whole family were split up and my uncle gerald went to banardoes whn he was 2 - and Gertrude lillian did not die til 1951 Thank you

Oh no!!

I have spent over 2 hours trying to figure this out..........and all the info has already been posted on another thread!

:-(

Margaret, I though bells were starting to ring - we've done all this before:
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1283051?page=0

You should have resurrected that last thread rather than start a new one and have us duplicate work already done.

We established on that last thread that Philip Henry was also known just as Henry and that he didn't have children with Gertrude Lilian until the 1920s. Seems to tie in with a double life.

So is is posssible that is the same Philip Henry - my mother was born in 1920 and he is on her birth certificate

This is the same philip henry that married my grandmothehis parents are gertrude Lillian -
George Hales married +Margaret Blanch –nee Caldecott – parents Robert Caldecott & Elizabeth Caldecott

I did wonder if the Philip who married Gertrude.....left her and emmigrated to America.

But i don't see how that is possible as the Philip who emmigrated, left in 1906 and the marriage to Gertrude took place in 1908.

I think i need to have a lie down. :-S

The marriage certificate of Philip Henry Hales to Gertrude Lilian Kirby states he was a widower age 40 when they married 09/09/1908 in Leighton Buzzard. His occupation is given as trainer. Father George, retired.

(See on another Ancestry tree)

??

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2006
about Gertrude L Hales
Name: Gertrude L Hales
Birth Date: abt 1891
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1951
Age at Death: 60
Registration district: Surrey South Western
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume: 5g
Page: 1286

Andy

According to a tree on Ancestry, the Philip Henry Hales who married Sarah Lindop Lewis was born 1871 in Shawbury, Shropshire. Son of George Hales and Margarette Blanche Caldecott.

They don't have any sources attached but they have a photo of Philip and Sarah.

Hmmm, i think there is something suspicious here!

Who are the parents of your Phillip?

Thank you for all your replies - why I am trying to find out if the Philip Henry that married Sarah and emigrated - is the same Philip Henry that married ---------------------1891- married Gertrude Lillian 1908 – Leighton Buzzard
as both Philip Henrys have the same birthdate - The Philip Henry that marrried Gertrude Lillian are my grandparents -
On the 1911 census gertrude lillian is with her parents and no idea where philip henry is?
That is why I wondered if there was a death for a Philip Henry in the UK?
also where did Sarah and Philip marry and who were his parents?

We need some feedback from Margaret.....

U.S. City Directories, 1821-1989 (Beta) about Philip Henry Hales
Name: Philip Henry Hales
Gender: M (Male)
Residence Year: 1925
Street Address: 610 Ulster
Residence Place: Syracuse, New York
Occupation: Gardener
Spouse: Sarah L Hales
Publication Title: Syracuse, New York, City Directory, 1925

1891 Wales Census about Philip Henry Hales
Name: Philip Henry Hales
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Son
Father's Name: George Hales
Gender: Male
Where born: Ellesmere, Shropshire, England

Civil parish: Overton
Ecclesiastical parish: Overton
Town: Overton
County/Island: Flintshire
Country: Wales

Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image

Registration district: Ellesmere
Sub-registration district: Overton
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2119
Folio: 23
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
George Hales 68
Ellen Hales 32
Emily R Hales 25
Louisa C Hales 24
Charlotte J Hales 22
Philip Henry Hales 20
Walter Hales 70
William Jones 16

1920 United States Federal Census
about Philip H Hales
Name: Philip H Hales
Age: 46
Birth Year: abt 1874
Birthplace: England
Home in 1920: Syracuse Ward 10, Onondaga, New York
Race: White
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1916
Relation to Head of House: Head
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Sarah L Hales
Father's Birthplace: England
Mother's Birthplace: England
Home Owned: Rent
Able to Read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Philip H Hales 46
Sarah L Hales 33
Lindop E Hales 10
Edna L Hales 10


Andy

Margaret, what else can you tell us about your chap? What was the last census you had him on? What was his occupation? Who were his parents? Do you know if he married?

All this info is useful when confirming death records (and others), particularly overseas.

1910 United States Federal Census
about Philip H Hales
Name: Philip H Hales
Age in 1910: 38
Birth Year: 1872
Birthplace: England
Home in 1910: Syracuse Ward 10, Onondaga, New York
Race: White
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1907
Relation to Head of House: Head
[Self (Head)]
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Sarah S Hales
Father's Birthplace: England
Mother's Birthplace: England
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Philip H Hales 38
Sarah S Hales 24
Henry T Hales 1
Linda P Hales 1




Andy

New York, Passenger Lists, 1820-1957

Name: Philipp Henry Hales
Arrival Date: 21 Apr 1906
Birth Date: abt 1872
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/ Nationality: English
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Caronia

He was a farmer headed to Syracuse, c/o the Trade Society.

Might he have emmigrated??

Passenger Lists leaving UK 1890-1960 Transcription
First Name: P H
Last Name: HALES
Collections from: United Kingdom
Country: USA
Record set:
Passenger Lists leaving UK 1890-1960
Ship Name: CARONIA
Birth Year: 1872
Age: 34
Ship Departure Port: LIVERPOOL
Destination Port: NEW YORK Departure Year: 1906
Occupation: Lab