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Not sure where to start! Noah Newmanborn 1849 married Mary Ann Brown born 1855 in 1872 in Wantage Berkshire. They had three children: Arthur William K Newman 1875, Georgina Ann Newman 1877, and Thomas George Charles Newman 1882. Noah and Mary seperated some time between 1881and 1884. She met Charles Lamb born 1846 and had three children with him prior to them marrying in 1891 in Reading, and then two more children after that. Their children were: Lilian Mary Lamb 1884, Percy Edmund Lamb 1886, Victor Ernest Oswald Lamb 1888, Harold Edward Smith Lamb 1893, and Grace Dorothy Lamb 1898. I know for definite that Victor Ernest Oswald Lamb was the son of Mary Ann and Charles as the birth certificate states it but I haven't seen the information for the others as yet. Now I'm pretty sure Mary Ann committed bigamy as Noah didn't die - he didn't die until 1937. Mary listed herself as a widow on her marriage certificate to Charles. Mary and Noah's eldest child stayed with Noah while the two younger children went with Mary to live with Charles Lamb. They took the surname of Lamb too. They are shown on the census returns together. The family start using the alias surname of Smith and as you can see from one of their children, they also registered a child with the name as a middle name. Interestingly, Charles Lamb and Mary's brother Henry worked for a Smith family in 1861 so wondered if there was a connection there. Also what is interesting is that they were living in Swindon but got married in Reading - wondered if they went there because it was a bigamous marriage. I am trying to locate hte daughters Lilian Mary Lamb and Grace Dorothy Lamb on 1911 census as well as Thomas George Charles Newman - presumably the girls were married by then but I have no details for them. Thomas was married to Nellie Maria Brotheridge. Any help would be much appreciated.

1911 England Census
about Dorothy Grace Lamb
Name: Dorothy Grace Lamb
Age in 1911: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1898
Relation to Head: Niece
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Swindon, Wiltshire, England
Civil parish: Basildon
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England
Street Address: 64 Upper Basildon, Reading, Berks
Occupation: School
Registration district: Bradfield
Registration District Number: 120
Sub-registration district: Bucklebury
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Household schedule number: 100
Piece: 6537
Household Members: Name Age
George Lamb 50
Elizabeth Lamb 46
Elsie May Lamb 17
George Alfred Lamb 14
Annie Elizabeth Lamb 13
Charles William Lamb 8
Dorothy Grace Lamb 13
William Lamb 58


Andy

Thanks for the 1911 for Grace Dorothy - she must have gone to live with her uncle after her mother died in 1910. Her father died in 1914 from Senile Decay so probably couldn't look after her too well by then either.

Could this be Thomas's wife Nellie with two children in 1911 (Thomas is not listed but she is listed as married):-

1911 census transcription details for: 16 Kitchener St Swindon Wiltshire

National Archive Reference:
RG14PN11777 RG78PN651 RD240 SD2 ED11 SN211
Reg. District: Swindon
Sub District: Swindon
Parish: Swindon
Enum. District: 11

Address: 16 Kitchener St Swindon Wiltshire
County: Wiltshire

Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born

SUTTON, James Head Married M 40 1871 Wood Wagon Builder Risca Mon
SUTTON, Bessie Wife Married
14 years F 38 1873 Malmesbury Wilts
SUTTON, Harold Son M 13 1898 School Swindon Wilts
SUTTON, Fredrick Son M 12 1899 School Swindon Wilts
SUTTON, Reginald Son M 8 1903 Swindon Wilts
SUTTON, Francis Son M 6 1905 Swindon Wilts
SUTTON, Benjamin Son M 4 1907 Swindon Wilts
NEWMAN, Nellie Boarder Married F 25 1886 Finisher Cheltenham Glos<<<<<<<<<<<
NEWMAN, Charles Boarder M 5 1906 Swindon Wilts<<<<<<<<<
NEWMAN, William Boarder M 1 1910 Swindon Wilts<<<<<<<<<<

Kath. x

A public tree on ancestry has the following about Thomas George Charles Newman's wife. (It also has a photograph of her)

Thomas George Charles Newman
1882 –

Charles Edward Newman
1905 – 1964

William George Smith
1909 – 1957

Spouse & Children
George Henry Richens



Marriages Dec 1913
Jones Richard Tarrant Swindon 5a 83
Newman Nellie M Richens Swindon 5a 83 <<<<<<<<
Richens George H Newman Swindon 5a 83 <<<<<<<<
Tarrant Emily Jones Swindon 5a 83


Not seeing a death for Nellie's first husband at the moment.


Here is Nellie and her children in 1911 but no Thomas!

Name: Charles Newman
Age in 1911: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1906
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Swindon, Wiltshire, England
Civil parish: Swindon
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England
Street Address: 16 Kitchener St, Swindon, Wilts
Registration district: Swindon
Registration District Number: 240
Sub-registration district: Swindon
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Household schedule number: 211
Piece: 11777
Household Members: Name Age
James Sutton 40
Bessie Sutton 38
Harold Sutton 13
Fredrick Sutton 12
Reginald Sutton 8
Francis Sutton 6
Benjamin Sutton 4
Nellie Newman 25 Married, Finisher in Cloth Factory
Charles Newman 5
William Newman 1

Entry doesn't say how long Nellie has been married but does say 2 children born and 2 living.

For ref.

Is this the Charles and Mary Lamb / Smith you refer to 1891 please?

Name: Thomas J Newman
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Relation: Stepson
Mother's Name: Mary A Smith
Gender: Male
Where born: Newbury, Berkshire, England

Civil parish: Swindon
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
Town: New Swindon
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Highworth
Sub-registration district: Swindon
ED, institution, or vessel: 27
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1584
Folio: 48
Page Number: 42
Household Members: Name Age
Charle L Smith 40
Mary A Smith 34
Georgena A Newman 13
Thomas J Newman 8
Lily M Smith 7
Percy E Smith 5
Victor E Smith 3
James Gardener 32



If so this seems to be the birth for the above Thomas

Births Jun 1882 Newman Thomas James C Newbury 2c 244

Who did he name as his father on the marriage to Nellie?

the 1911 census that a couple of you find does appear to be Nellie although her husband isn't with them - it's the right children. I know about the tree on ancestry - I have had contact with them regarding the family but they know as much as I do at present.

Yes rootgatherer that is the right family in 1891 - Most of them are using the Smith surname other than the children from Mary's first husband to Noah Newman - Charles also lists his middle initial as L which I suspect stands for Lamb in this case.

Yes that it the birth for Thomas J Newman - although registered with James in the middle of his name, it seems he also used George as a middle name too and was known by all of them at some point and in a variety of different orders! A variety of first names and a variety of second names making quite a number of combinations to work with when trying locate him!

As for who he listed as a father on his marriage certificate, that I do not know but he was registered at birth as Newman so presume Noah was the father - all the Lamb children were registered as Lamb even though they were born out of wedlock.

Don't seem to be able to find a death for Thomas either.