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Ooh Christina - that looks promising. It would also explain why Rachel is shown as Llewellyn in all but the 1841 census! Definitely not his step-mother - Thomas' father was also a Thomas. I'll follow this up!
Thanks

Perhaps Ann was a sister in law, or step mother of Thomas?

Have you seen this marriage.....


Ann Williams
Wales, Glamorgan Parish Registers, 1558-1900
marriage: 1832 Llanishen,? Glamorgan,? Wales
spouse: George Llewellyn

name: George Llewellyn
event: Marriage
event date: 1832
event place: Llanishen, Glamorgan, Wales
spouse: Ann Williams

The Breakspear money didn't get to my part of the family either - a brewery - still on the go, and a biscuit factory now Huntley and Palmers!!!

I think in the old censuses Llanedarn = Llanedyrn. Yes I think the Cryws Hotel is still there... unfortunately the money is long gone and didn't filter down to me :-(

Course I can - WW2 I hasten to add

Would that be Llanedeyn rather than Llandern?

Crwys Hotel is still there I believe - think it's on Crwys Road

Thomas my gg grandfather was born in Roath as far as I can glean. Ann born Lisvane. So could be siblings....

Thomas in 1861 was a farmer of 22 acres in Llanedarn

By 1871 he was an Innkeeper in Spring Gardens Roath. He owned the Crwys Hotel as well

You can't remember the war Ann??!! :-D

The DVLA in Llanishen is just about to close :-(

When I lived on Thornhill Road - during the war there was a Llewellyn who had farm on that road - Ivor Llewellyn, Llanishen Fach Farm but never heard of Duffryn Farm perhaps it had been renamed as I knew all of the farms in the area

Kibbor if I remember rightly was in the next village - Lisvane

Not convinced about this Elias angle...I think it must be Ellis - fits with Edmund Williams having an uncle Edward Ellis. But HOW?????? Common-sense says Daniel's mother is either Miriam or Sarah Williams....but without finding a GRO how can I prove it aaaggghhh????? ;-)

1881 Census Household RecordHousehold Information
Address Green Meadow
Parish St Mellons (Monmouth)
District Cardiff, Cardiff
Administrative County Glamorganshire

Householder 1
Name Daniel Elias
Age 42
Estimated Year of Birth 1839
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Occupation Farmer 25 Acres
Birth Place Cardiff
Birth County Glamorganshire

Householder 2
Name Mary Elias
Age 38
Estimated Year of Birth 1843
Relationship to Head of Household Wife
Occupation
Birth Place Marshfield
Birth County Monmouthshire

Householder 3
Name Charlotte Ann Elias
Age 12
Estimated Year of Birth 1869
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Occupation Scholar
Birth Place Marshfield
Birth County Monmouthshire

Householder 4
Name John Elias
Age 11
Estimated Year of Birth 1870
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Scholar
Birth Place Marshfield
Birth County Monmouthshire

Householder 5
Name Margaret Elias
Age 9
Estimated Year of Birth 1872
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Occupation Scholar
Birth Place Marshfield
Birth County Monmouthshire

Householder 6
Name Daniel James Elias
Age 7
Estimated Year of Birth 1874
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Scholar
Birth Place Marshfield
Birth County Monmouthshire

Householder 7
Name Lidia Elias
Age 4
Estimated Year of Birth 1877
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Marshfield
Birth County Monmouthshire

Householder 8
Name Alice Elias
Age 0
Estimated Year of Birth 1881
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place St Mellons
Birth County Monmouthshire

Householder 9
Name Eliza Edwards
Age 18
Estimated Year of Birth 1863
Relationship to Head of Household Servant
Occupation General Servant (Domestic)
Birth Place Newport
Birth County Monmouthshire

1841 Census Household RecordHousehold Information
Address Spittal
Parish St John
District Cardiff, Cardiff
Administrative County Glamorganshire

Householder 1
Name Daniel Elias
Age 30
Estimated Year of Birth 1811
Relationship to Head of Household
Occupation
Birth Place Glamorgan
Birth County Glamorgan

Householder 2
Name Ann Elias
Age 25
Estimated Year of Birth 1816
Relationship to Head of Household
Occupation
Birth Place Glamorgan
Birth County Glamorgan

Householder 3
Name Edmund Elias
Age 6
Estimated Year of Birth 1835
Relationship to Head of Household
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Glamorgan
Birth County Glamorgan

Householder 4
Name Catherine Elias
Age 5
Estimated Year of Birth 1836
Relationship to Head of Household
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Glamorgan
Birth County Glamorgan

Householder 5
Name Daniel Elias
Age 2
Estimated Year of Birth 1839
Relationship to Head of Household
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Glamorgan
Birth County Glamorgan

possible says he was born cardiff on census


1871 Census Household RecordHousehold Information
Address Near Pentwyn
Parish Marshfield
District Newport, St Woollos
Administrative County Monmouthshire

Householder 1
Name Daniel Elias
Age 32
Estimated Year of Birth 1839
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Occupation
Birth Place Glamorgan
Birth County Glamorgan

Householder 2
Name Mary Elias
Age 29
Estimated Year of Birth 1842
Relationship to Head of Household Wife
Occupation
Birth Place Monmouthshire
Birth County Monmouthshire

Householder 3
Name Charlotte A Elias
Age 2
Estimated Year of Birth 1869
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Monmouthshire
Birth County Monmouthshire

Householder 4
Name John Elias
Age 1
Estimated Year of Birth 1870
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Monmouthshire
Birth County Monmouthshire

Householder 5
Name Mary Fenton
Age 14
Estimated Year of Birth 1857
Relationship to Head of Household Servant
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Monmouthshire
Birth County Monmouthshire

Householder 6
Name John Walters
Age 24
Estimated Year of Birth 1847
Relationship to Head of Household Lodger
Occupation
Birth Place Monmouthshire
Birth County Monmouthshire

Householder 7
Name George Baker
Age 25
Estimated Year of Birth 1846
Relationship to Head of Household Lodger
Occupation
Birth Place Glamorgan
Birth County Glamorgan

I have got lots on Moses and Jane - Thomas LL is actually Thomas Llewellyn Williams. What I am trying to determine is whether Ann - the mother - is related to Thomas my gg grandfather.

And then to try and find any info on the births of the Williams children to see if I can find a father - and if so, why Ann remained a Llewellyn while all the children were Williams'.

To find Daniel's parents would be a bonus - but I can't find a birth for him. Don't think it is the Elias birth 'cos I can find him at other censuses....

oh thats good to know if saved you money


what is it we are looking for lol bit thick head today :-D

Any thoughts for Daniel the grandson??


Births Mar 1839 (>99%)
ELIAS Daniel Cardiff 26 322

1861 Census Household RecordHousehold Information
Address John Street
Parish Roath
District Cardiff, Cardiff
Administrative County Glamorganshire

Householder 1
Name Moses Williams
Age 30
Estimated Year of Birth 1831
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Occupation Labourer
Birth Place Lanishen
Birth County Glamorganshire

Householder 2
Name Jane Williams
Age 28
Estimated Year of Birth 1833
Relationship to Head of Household Wife
Occupation
Birth Place Roath
Birth County Glamorganshire

Householder 3
Name Thomas L L Williams
Age 3
Estimated Year of Birth 1858
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Roath
Birth County Glamorganshire

Yes Ann that's the census I posted ...comes up as Elies. But I thought it was probably Ellis. Whilst pottering have found 1861 census for Edmund Williams with an uncle Edward Ellis...is Llanishen where the DVLA place is?

PP - you saved me £9.25 for an incorrect certificate I think!!

Marriages Sep 1854 (>99%)
Jones Ann Cardiff 11a 350
Llewellyn Jane Cardiff 11a 350
THOMAS Edward Cardiff 11a 350
Williams Moses Cardiff 11a 350

Jude

I used to live in Llanishen


????


Daniel Ellis
England and Wales Census, 1851
birth: Cardiff,? Glamorganshire
census: 1851 Wales


name: Daniel Ellis
age: 12
gender: M
birthplace: Cardiff, Glamorganshire
relationship to head of household: Grand Son
record type: Household

Marriage Record Name Jane Llewellyn
Year of Marriage 1854
Quarter of Marriage Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration District Cardiff
Registration County Glamorganshire
Spouse's Surname Only available for records after 1912
Volume Number 11A
Volume Page 350


married moses williams

In 1851, my great grandparents can be found at a farm called Duffryn in the Llanishen area of Cardiff

Name: Thomas Llewelern [Thomas Llewellin] Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Jane Llewelern
Gender: Male
Where born: Neath, Glamorgan, Wales
[Roath]
Civil Parish or Township: Llanishen
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: Caerphilly
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Piece: 2454
Folio: 208
Page Number: 8
Household schedule number: 25
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Llewelern 45
Jane Llewelern 44
Thomas Llewelern 12
William Llewelern 7
Mary Taylor 23
John Thomas 3
William Adley 25

"Next Door" is the following family

Name: Ann Llewelin
Age: 62
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1789
Relation: Head
Where born: Lisvane, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Llanishen
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: Caerphilly
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Piece: 2454
Folio: 208
Page Number: 8
Household schedule number: 26
Household Members:
Name Age
Ann Llewelin 62
Milam Williams 23 (Miriam)
Mopes Williams 22 (Moses)
Rhachel Chwelin 15 (Rachel Llewellyn)
Daniel Elies 12

Miriam, Moses and Rachel are children of Ann; Daniel is a grandson. In 1841, there are additional (what I assume are) children (and Rachel is a Williams).

Name: Ann Lewellyn
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1791
Gender: Female
Where born: Glamorgan, Wales
Civil parish: Llan ishen
Hundred: Kibbor
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: Caerphilly
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1418
Book: 4
Folio: 4
Page Number: 2
Household Members:
Name Name
Ann Lewellyn 50
Sarrah Williams 25
Edmund Williams 20
Daniel Williams 15
Merriam Williams 13
Mosses Williams 11
Rachael Williams 5

In 1853, Moses marries Jane Llewellyn, the daughter of Thomas and Jane.

I will be getting some certificates in due course; I thought to try marriage of Moses and Jane and, maybe one of the birth certificates of Jane's younger brothers to make sure that Jane (the mother) was indeed an Evans!

In the meantime, I am stumped. Is Ann a relative of Thomas? Why are the children called Williams? Who is Daniel Elies (probably Ellis). I have not been able to find a GRO index for him or anything elsewhere for any of the other Williams children.

As ever any help (very) gratefully received! :-)