Find Ancestors

Hi MC, yes I think the age is just a guess. If you look at the ERs, John Alfred is listed first, followed by Lily (qualifies by HO or husbands occupation) then Charles who is only eligible for parliamentary elections by residency.

It's one step forward and two steps back with this one!

If Charles Wright was the son, then to be on the ER he'd have to be 21 or over. So, born no later than 1902. That would be pushing it (but not impossible) if John Alfred was born c1886.

Has John Alfred's age just been assumed as being the same as Ellen's?

Bit more info from Douglas. Turns out John Alfred recorded his address as 50 Invicta Road in the autumn of 1926 - where Ellen was.

In 1923-25 he is listed with Lily Wrignt (his wife??) and Charles Wright (his son??), at 12 Guild Road, Greenwich. In spring 1926 with Lily Wright, Edith Fairy May & Margetts Herbert at 40 Old Dover Road. (No Charles) - although I can't find this one.

I'm not getting any further with this, so if anyone has any ideas?

Hi Douglas,

Did you have any full siblings, or just half siblings from your mother's previous marriage, and were there any siblings from your father's side? Looking at the ERs for London it would appear she was still with her first husband until 1926, and there is no sign of a divorce for them.

I'm not trying to be nosey, but it may help to pinpoint your fathers birth, possible previous marriage etc, then be able to look for a death. Without knowing his age this is impossible at the moment, and as you appreciate there are a lot of John Alfred Wright births so pinpointing the right one is impossible.

atb
Flip

No luck on Ellen, but oldest child William Matthew turns up in Greenwich from 1930 at 12 Selcroft Road.

A bit more, Matthew & Ellen Derham were recorded on the ERs 1919-1926 at 50 Invicta Place. Just looking for her in 1927 at the moment.

On Ancestry you can search the London ER but you need to know the borough and parliamentary division that the street comes under.
From Google I think Westcombe Hill is Blackheath but I just can't get to that.

Matthew's mother was Harriet on that army record (well found MC), so this is probably his parents marriage

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1875
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
DERHAM William CLARK Harriet Oldham, Lower Moor, St. Stephen & All Martyrs Oldham CE237/1/28

However, this isn't getting any nearer Douglas's father - and I've no idea how to search ERs by address

London, England, Electoral Registers, 1847-1965
Name: John Alfred Wright
Electoral Year: 1921
Parliamentary Division: Finsbury and Greenwich
County or Borough: Islington

Premises are 23-25 Bramshot Avenue (ties in with the info in Douglas' pm). Home abode is 180 Westcombe Hill.

Help!! Does anyone know how to search the ER by address to see if Ellen is at 180 Westcombe Hill?

Possibly:

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2006
Name: Matthew Durham
Birth Date: abt 1882
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1960
Age at Death: 78
Registration district: Greenwich
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5c
Page: 573

London, England, Electoral Registers, 1847-1965
Name: Matthew Derham
Electoral Year: 1946
Parliamentary Division: Greenwich
County or Borough: Greenwich

Living at 32 Lizban Street, at the same address is Elizabeth Johnson & Albert Buckley.
The street before this one is Invicta Road, where he was demobbed to in 1919.

In 1953 (which is the last one I can find) it's the same scenario but with the addition of an Eva Buckley.

I'd take a guess on this being his birth:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Matthew Durham
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1882
Registration district: Oldham
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 648

They sound the same when you say them out loud.

Was hoping Matthew's pension record might give some clues about Ellen, but sadly not:

British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920
Name: Mathew Derham
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Age at enlistment: 18
Birth Parish: Higginshaw
Birth County: Lancashire
Document Year: 1900 - First attested 17 Feb 1900 at Manchester
Regimental Number: 4903
Regiment Name: Royal Horse and Royal Field Artillery
Number of images: 15

Spouse Ellen King, marriage as already posted by Flip.

Children listed as
William Matthew 14 Nov 1908 Woolwich
May Ellen Mary 13 May 1911 Greenwich
Samuel George 08 May 1913 Greenwich

Discharged 11 April 1919 to 50 Invicta Road, Broadheath, London.

Possibly your mothers first marriage:

Matthew Derham
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Spouse Name: Ellen King
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 23 Feb 1908
Parish: Greenwich, East Christ Church
Borough: Greenwich
Father Name: William Derham
Spouse Father Name: Edward King
Register Type: Parish Register

I'm guessing Matthew served in WW1 as there is Samuel G born 1913, then a gap to Charles S in 1919.

However, can't find a birth or death for Matthew.

1911 for Ellen?

Matthew Derham
Age in 1911: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Oldham
Civil parish: Greenwich
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 73 Siebert Rd, Blackheath, London SE
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: GROOM
Registration district: Greenwich
Registration District Number: 28
Sub-registration district: Greenwich East
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Piece: 2709
Household Members: Name Age
Matthew Derham 29
Ellen Derham 24 <<<born Acton
William Derham 2 <<<born Woolwich
Emma Webb 55 <<lodger

Turns out Ellen King married Matthew Derham in 1908, but I can't see a Wright/Derham marriage either, so suspect the parents were never married.

Need some help on this one folks please!

PM received from Douglas (hope you don't mind, I've just posted some of it so others can help):

My Father was John Alfred Wright and Mother Ellen King. Mother Was Born in December 1886.
My Parents Moved from Greenwich London in 1926,My Father had a Hairdressers shop at 23-25 Bramshott Avenue from 1920 until they moved to Buntingford in 1927.
I was 3years old when my father Left home, I have no record where he went or where he was born or his age.

So no trace of father from 1930-ish. I can't see a marriage for them either.

John Wright
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation: Inmate
Gender: Male
Where born: Lyminge, Kent, England
Civil parish: Cheriton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Martin
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street Address

Registration district: Elham
Sub-registration district: Folkestone

could be the Elham birth -- not found on other censuses !!!!

Mavis

you must know more about him than you are telling us - tell us all you know

????

Births Mar 1887 (>99%)
Wright John Alfred Elham 2a 1006