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Pauline,

If you are going to order certificates use the official GRO - £9.25, other sites charge considerably more:

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

It is only the birth index that doesn't record the MMN pre 1911 - the actual certificates record it.

Welcome back to your thread, just keep track of it as I explained. Anything you ever post either in your own thread or on someone elses will be found under "my threads"

Thank you all for great help. I think Mary Ann Howard is going to b a winner, but I shall have to request certificates for proof, which may take a little while. It does say on some sites that mothers' maiden names were not normally included on birth certificates pre 1911 in England, but even so I should be able to gather sufficient cross reference data to confirm. :-D

Mary's family in 1861, but she is not with them:

William Howard
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1815
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Howard
Gender: Male
Where born: Cranford, Northamptonshire, England

Civil parish: Northampton All Saints
Town: Northampton
County/Island: Northamptonshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Northampton
Sub-registration district: All Saints
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 134
Piece: 939
Folio: 19
Page Number: 31
Household Members: Name Age
William Howard 46 <<< born Cranford
Mary Howard 46 <<<born Kettering
Dorothy Howard 19 <<<Thrapston
William Howard 12 <<<Thrapston
Frederick Howard 7 <<<Harrold? Beds (son)
Walter Howard 3 <<<Harrold, Beds (grandson)

Likely parents for Mary Ann Howard married Cranford, St Andrews (familysearch.org)
on 29/5/1833, William Howard and Mary Tingle. Don't seem to be able to copy the record, but it's easy to find.

Hi Pauline

Welcome to the boards by the way, just noticed this is your first posting.

The only way you can prove Mary Ann Howard is the right one would be from one of the childrens birth certificates - as Sylvia pointed out it is unusual for the mothers name not to be on a birth certificate. I suspect you have the "short" version and not the full version. Rebecca's birth from freebmd.org (free search)

Births Dec 1874 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CHAPMAN Rebecca Wilson Kettering 3b 172

However, I think the birth of sister Emma clinches it:

Births Dec 1872 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chapman Emma Howard Kettering 3b 158

PM received from Pauline, have advised her to reply on the thread.

Flip, thanks so much for your help. The families are correct - even the age error for Rebecca on one census was due to a transcription error! I am hoping Mary Ann Howard is a winner - everything fits in, I am yet to prove it is so, and we have never heard this name before. Every sugggestion or thought received to date has been dismissed, even though sometimes it was looking possible. And you got back to me so quickly - I don't get to the computer every day so I was rapt to see the responses. You're a gem.

For confirmation of the above, you could get the birth cert of one of the siblings.

Same family 1841

Mary Howard
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Gender: Female
Where born: Northamptonshire, England

Civil parish: St John Cranford
Hundred: Huxloe
County/Island: Northamptonshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Kettering
Sub-registration district: Kettering
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 803
Book: 8
Folio: 4
Page Number: 19
Household Members: Name Age
Wm Howard 25
Mary Howard 25
Charles Howard 6
George Howard 4
Mary Howard 2
Shadrach Howard 10 Mo

Possible for Mary Ann in 1851

Mary Ann Howard
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William Howard
Mother's Name: Mary Howard
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Cranford, Northamptonshire, England

Civil parish: Thrapston
Town: Thrapston
County/Island: Northamptonshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Thrapston
Sub-registration district: Thrapston
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 139
Piece: 1745
Folio: 131
Page Number: 37
Household Members: Name Age
William Howard 37 <<<<<<<gardener, born Cranford
Mary Howard 37 <<<<<<born Hunts, Easton
George Howard 14
Mary Ann Howard 12 <<<
Shadrack Howard 10
John Howard 8
Dorothy Ann Howard 7
Ann Maria Howard 4
William Howard 8 Mo

Age a bit out in 1881, but same family

Rebecca Chapman
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John Chapman
Mother's Name: Mary A. Chapman
Gender: Female
Where born: Kettering, Northamptonshire, England

Civil parish: Northampton Priory St Andrew
County/Island: Northamptonshire
Country: England

Street Address: 32 Duke St
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Northampton
Sub-registration district: St Giles
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1549
Folio: 118
Page Number: 34
Household Members: Name Age
John Chapman 43
Mary A. Chapman 41
George Chapman 16
Annie Chapman 14
Ellen Chapman 11
Emma Chapman 8
Rebecca Chapman 10
Harry Chapman 3
Fred Chapman

Pauline


It is most unusual not to see the mother's maiden name on a long birth certificate

Possible, bearing in mind her second name:

Marriages Dec 1864 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chapman John Wilson Northampton 3b 163 <<<<
Howard Mary Ann Northampton 3b 163 <<<<<<<<
McKenna Ann Elizabeth Northampton 3b 163
Wyatt Frederick Northampton 3b 163

For reference - is this the family?

Rebecca Chapman
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John Chapman
Mother's Name: Mary Chapman
Gender: Female
Where born: Kettering, Northamptonshire, England

Civil parish: St Andrew
Ecclesiastical parish: St Lawrence
County/Island: Northamptonshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Northampton
Sub-registration district: St Giles
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1198
Folio: 63
Page Number: 22
Household Members: Name Age
John Chapman 54 <<<<<Tailor, born Kettering
Mary Chapman 50 <<<<<<<<born Cranford? Northants
Emma Chapman 18
Rebecca Chapman 16
Harry Chapman 13
Fredk Chapman 10

Hi, I have found the records for my grandmother Rebecca Wilson Chapman, born 29 November 1874, to John and Mary A Chapman, in Kettering Northamptonshire. She married Harry Cooper on October 2, 1897. Fruitless hours spent trying to find her mothers maiden name, not being on the birth certificate. Family tree is totally STUCK. Would any one know how to find out, or have some information that may help me?