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My ancester Fred married Mary Baker in about 1870. There are two possible fathers for Fred. John married to Mary or Joseph Cornelius married to Emma. Can any one help me to find out who is my great great grandfather.

If you get Fred and Mary's marriage cert, you'll have their fathers' names.

Marriages Sep 1870
BAKER Mary Tunbridge 2a 784
BIDDLECOMBE Frederick Tunbridge 2a 784

Do you know why they don't seem to be showing on the censuses?

The only Fred and Mary pairings are too young to be this couple.

Do you have the names and dates of any of their children?
Or one of their deaths?

Thanks Janice, have no papers to help. As I say there are two possible fathers for Fred. Its determining the right one. There is no family record to help. May be a visit to Tonbridge is on the cards!

But as they are your ancestors one of their children must be your direct ancestor . They dont show on any census after they married which is strange. .

Who are you descended from

Did they go abroad?

emefbe - if you don't have a copy of the marriage certificate then you can order one from GRO - http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ The cost is £9.25.

Janice has posted above the references you need.

Which of Fred and Mary's children are you descended from? When and where were they born? This will help us establish the right family to work back from.

My grandfather Frank was Fred's son. My father Arthur was Frank's son. I think the marriage certificate will give me the answer. Many thanks all of you. I will post my success!

When and where was Frank born?

Concerned because we can't establish a census trail for this family.

I have a census trail for my family up to my great grand father Frederick. I then have two options to go further. I am trying to determine which trail to take. My ancestry up to Fredericks parents is totally accurate.

Where are Fred and Mary in 1871 right after their marriage, do you know?

Did Fred have any siblings?

from a Public Family tree on ancestry


Frank Guy Lang Biddlecombe
Birth Oct 1876 in West Derby, Liverpool, Lancashire, United Kingdom
Death Jul 1945 in Windsor, Berkshire, England


Parents

Frederick Biddlecombe (-)

Mary Baker (1848-)



-----------------

And I've found Frank and mary on the 1891 and 1901 Censuses .........



???? Is this Frank with mother Mary in 1891????

1891 Census

Name: Frank G B Wdleconb
[Frank G Biddlecombe]
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Mary Biddlecombe
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool

Civil parish: Wandsworth
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: Wandsworth
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Wandsworth
Sub-registration district: Wandsworth

Mary Biddlecombe 43 b.ca 1848, Southampton, Hampshire, Matron Institute
Minnie Marshall 13 Boarder
Mary Reynold 10 Boarder
Ennie Briggs 18 Boarder
Frank G B Wdleconb 14
Annie Barton 27 Servant

Address:- 19 Upper Rident (??sp) Rd

It is an Orphanage




Libbie F Pearsall 31 is also shown




1901 Census

Name: Frank Biddlecombe
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Mary Biddlecombe
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Wandsworth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephen
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Wandsworth
Sub-registration district: Wandsworth

Mary Biddlecombe 53 b.ca 1848, Southampton, Hampshire
Frank Biddlecombe 24 Mechanical Engineer Fitter
Lucy M France 25 Boarder

Address:- 57 Mexfield Road



Mary and son Fred in 1881

Name: Mary Biddlecombe
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Servant (Head) (Servant)
Gender: Female
Where born: Southampton, Hampshire, England

Civil parish: St George
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 13 Upper Grosvenor St W
Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower)

Occupation: Housekeeper

Registration district: Chelsea
Sub-registration district: Hanover Square

Mary Biddlecombe 33
Fred Biddlecombe 9 b.ca 1872, Leicester, Leicestershire, England





so it looks as though Frederick died before 1881




......... and I do know that emefbe has all these ................ but the knowledge helps us to get our heads around the family!





sylvia

???????????????


birth registration for Fred ??????????????


Births Jun 1871 (>99%)

Biddlecombe Fred Cornelius J Leicester 7a 173

According to another Public Family Tree ...... Frederick son of John and Mary married a Catherine, and died in 1919.



John_Bennett_Diment Born_1879_Somerset
Public Member Tree

Frederick Biddlecombe
Birth: Abt 1846 - Somerset, England
Death: Bet. Oct–Dec 1919 - Cardiff, Wales
Spouse: Catherine Biddlecombe

F: John Biddlecombe

M: Mary Biddlecombe


His occupation in 1891 was Platelayer





Meanwhile, yet another tree shows the following ..........................


#41: Salisbury 1813 > Southampton > St Pancras > Norwich > Hastings > Manchester
Owner: LisaBiddlecombe



Frederick Biddlecombe
Birth Oct 1846 in Southampton, Hampshire, England
Death Jan 1878 in Southampton, Hampshire, United Kingdom

1846 Oct
Birth
Southampton, Hampshire, England


1847 6 Jun
Baptism
Southampton, Hampshire, England

1851
Age: 5
Residence
20 Clifton Terrace, Southampton All Saints, Hampshire, England


1861
Age: 15
Residence
16 Blechynden Terrace, Southampton, England
Scholar


1878 Jan
Age: 31
Death
Southampton, Hampshire, United Kingdom


Parents

Joseph Cornelius Biddlecombe 1813 – 1879
Emma 1821 – 1898

Show siblings

Joseph George Biddlecombe1839 –
Emma Laura Biddlecombe1840 –
Kate Biddlecombe1844 –
Ellen Frances Biddlecombe1844 –
Rosaline Biddlecombe1850 –
Arthur Augustine Biddlecombe1853 – 1879
Annie Biddlecombe1855 –
Frank Guy Lang Biddlecombe1855 – 1864
Walter Biddlecombe1856 –
Louisa Elizabeth Baron Biddlecombes1860 –

Spouse & Children

No Spouse






It does look as though your Frederick was the son of Joseph Cornelius and Emma ....... even though this tree does not have Frederick marrying. Nor do they have an 1871 Census for him ......... but he is shown as a Mariner somewhere ...... so he could have been at sea.

But look at the name of his sibling Frank, who died in 1864

and his eldest son was given the second name Cornelius. It wuld be good to get Fred Cornelius birth certificate to get his full name.

Could the initial J be for Joseph????




"England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," Frederick Biddlecombe, 1847

Name: Frederick Biddlecombe
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 1847
Baptism/Christening Place: SOUTHAMPTON, ALL SAINTS, HAMPSHIRE, ENGLAND
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Joseph Biddlecombe
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Emma
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C13566-1
System Origin: England-VR
Source Film Number: 1041734
Reference Number: - 2:2WRJM26





sylvia

and look what happens when you google Fred Cornelius Biddlecombe


Alberta Homestead Records 1870 - 1930


BIDDLECOMBE, Frederick Cornelius John
Section 6 Township 12 Range 1 Meridian 5
Film # 2818 in Accession # 1970.313 at Provincial Archives of Alberta
File # 1652060



so he must have emigrated after 1891



Unfortunately, this microfilm an only be viewed at the Provincial Archives of Alberta








sylvia

WELL DONE Sylvia :-D

I saw that one where Mary is a widow and thought it was a possiblility but emefbe had said that Fred's son was called Frank, and by this time Mary was on her own so I wasn't sure. That's why I asked about siblings.

Anyway the marriage cert should confirm the father, but I'm with you on Joseph Cornelius.

Janice

emefbe

The easy way to get the documentary proof of his father's name is to invest £9.25 in the marriage cert.

Order it online from the GRO

www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

I agree that the findings of Sylvia point to Joseph Cornelius emigrating and there is a vague note in my father's research suggesting this, but with no proof. This note is attached to Fred who is the brother of Frank Guy Lang (1877-1945) who emigrated to Canada to become a sheep farmer around 1900.
I will obtain the marriage certificate to prove these findings. As a novice to this family tracing I can't thank all of you enough for giving me an insight into how to trace lost family. Thanks. :-)

In addition to my last. My great Grandmother Mary was a Matron in an orphanage where my Grandfather FGL Biddlecombe lived with her.