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I am overwhelmed and extremely grateful to everyone who contributed their findings to my search. Now I know I have the right family, I think I need to try and concentrate on finding out if Elsie McGrath had any other children than my father-in-law - John McGrath, and if she went on to marry after having him. Thank you to Marie for mentioning that someone has Thomas & Phoebe's marriage cert on their tree on Ancestry. Very limited with my time due to work at the moment - so it will be my weekend project. Again - many thanks.

From birth cert on Ancestry:

Thomas born 9 April 1851 at 8 Court, Adlington Street in the sub-district of Dale Street, Liverpool.

Father Thomas, labourer. Mother Fanny nee Kivvil. Usual address 21 Court, Adlington Street. Birth registered 21 May 1851 by mother.

The tree on Ancestry has no further info for Emily McGrath nee Fox after their marriage and no info for the daughters Maria and Emily after 1881.

MarieCeleste...
Am using IE9 but never had this rubbish until the site was altered..
Have been in touch with them ..say no more...!!

Are you using IE8 browser?

I'll add it if that's OK? 1891

GRATH, Thomas Thos Head Married M 40 1851 Bolt Maker Liverpool, Lancashire
GRATH, Phoebe Wife Married F 39 1852 Smethwick, Staffordshire
GRATH, Gertrude Daughter F 9 1882 Scholar Smethwick, Staffordshire
GRATH, William Son M 6 1885 Scholar Birmingham, Warwickshire
GRATH, James Son M 2 1889 Smethwick, Staffordshire
GRATH, Fanny Daughter F 0 (5M) 1891 Smethwick, Staffordshire

Piece: 2365 Folio: 117 Page: 13
Registration District: Kings Norton
Civil Parish: Smethwick

Address: 201, Halford Lane, Smethwick County: Worcestershire

MarieCeleste ..Blame GR...since the site was altered I keep getting all sorts of weird going ons !!

Oooh Eringobragh - what's happened to your census?

MarieCeleste...You do find "Useful Info"..!!

This is Thos.1891...love the transcription


Name: Thomas Thos Grath Event: Census Event Date: 1891
: Male Age: 40 Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Birthplace: Liverpool,
: District: Kings Norton
Sub-district: Harborne Ecclesiastical Parish: North Harborne
Civil Parish: Smethwick County: Worcestershire



EDIT.....Can anyone explain why this Blank sheet appears periodically...! ??



































































:

Allegedly, his first marriage was to Emily Fox, born 1854 in West Brom:

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1873
COOKE Catherine Clara W. Bromwich 6b 1411
Fox Emily W Bromwich 6b 1411 <<
McGrath Thomas West Bromwich 6b 1411 <<
Millner George Samuel West Bromwich 6b 1411

Married 14 December 1873 at St Michael's chapel West Bromwich.

He was 21, bachelor, boltmaker. Father Thomas a labourer.
She was 20, spinster. Father Richard a blacksmith.
Address for both looks like Spou Lane.

Wotnesses: John White and Jane McGrath.

Somebody on Ancestry has Thomas & Phoebe's marriage cert on their tree:

Married 19 Oct 1889 at parish church of St Paul's, Birmingham

Thomas, bachelor, age 39. Nut & bolt maker of 29 Water Street. Father Thomas, nut & bolt maker.

Phoebe, spinster age 38. Lived 37 Ludgate ? Hill. Father William, gun bit maker.

Witnesses: William Ketch and Drusilla Farmer.

So which marital status of Thomas' is the fib - the one on the cert or the one on the 1881 census?

1881 gives useful background:

MC GRATH, Thomas Head Married M 29 1852 Nut & Bolt Maker Liverpool, Lancashire
MC GRATH, Maria Daughter Single F 7 1874 Scholar West Bromwich, Staffordshire
MC GRATH, Emily Daughter Single F 5 1876 Scholar West Bromwich, Staffordshire
FARMER, Phoebe Single F 28 1853 Housekeeper (Dom) Smethwick, Staffordshire

Piece: 2960 Folio: 104 Page: 16
Registration District: Kings Norton
Civil Parish: Harborne (Stafford)

Address: Back Houses, Grove Lane, Harborne (Stafford) County: Worcestershire

Marriage of Thomas McGrath and Phoebe Farmer
Birmingham Reg
.December Quarter 1889 6d 250


Cannot find a Marriage of McGrath with wife Phoebe prior to that date....
Wonder if Thomas had married previously...?

Note large gap in years between Fanny and Elsie..

Looks like it might be her??

Name: Winifred Elsie McGrath
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1897
Registration district: King's Norton
Inferred County: Worcestershire
Volume: 6c
Page: 475



1901 England Census

Name: Elsie McGrath
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1898
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thomas McGrath
Mother's Name: Phoebe McGrath
Gender: Female
Where born: Harborne, Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Smethwick
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England


Registration district: Kings Norton
Sub-registration district: Harborne

Thomas McGrath 50
Phoebe McGrath 48
Gertrude McGrath 19
Thomas McGrath 17
William McGrath 15
James McGrath 12
Fanny McGrath 10
Elsie McGrath 3
Thomas McGrath 80

hi this looks like family

1911 Census Household RecordHousehold information
Address 321 Stoney Lane Smethwick
Parish Smethwick
Town Smethwick
Type of Building Private House
Number of Rooms 5 Rooms
Inhabited Y
Reference RG14PN17961 RG78PN1094 RD383 SD4 ED19 SN192
Administrative County Worcestershire
Registration District Kings Norton
Registration Sub District Smethwick
Enumeration District 19

Householder 1
Name Thomas Mcgrath
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Condition / Years Married Married / 35 Years
Total Children Born Alive 10
Children Still Living 6
Children Who Have Died 4
Gender M
Age 59
Estimated Year of Birth 1852
Occupation Nut and Bolt Maker
Employed Y
Working at Home N
Industry Olwerman
Place of Birth Liverpool

Householder 2
Name Phoebe Mcgrath
Relationship to Head of Household Wife
Condition / Years Married Married
Gender F
Age 58
Estimated Year of Birth 1853
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Smethwick

Householder 3
Name Thomas Mcgrath
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Condition / Years Married Single
Gender M
Age 27
Estimated Year of Birth 1884
Occupation Labourer
Employed Y
Working at Home N
Industry Waggon Wks
Place of Birth Smethwick

Householder 4
Name William Mcgrath
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Condition / Years Married Single
Gender M
Age 25
Estimated Year of Birth 1886
Occupation Blacksmiths Striker
Employed Y
Working at Home N
Industry Waggon Wks
Place of Birth Birmingham

Householder 5
Name James Mcgrath
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Condition / Years Married Single
Gender M
Age 22
Estimated Year of Birth 1889
Occupation Brass Finisher
Employed Y
Working at Home N
Industry Chandelier Wks
Place of Birth Smethwick

Householder 6
Name Fanny Mcgrath
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Condition / Years Married Single
Gender F
Age 20
Estimated Year of Birth 1891
Occupation Screw Warmer
Employed Y
Working at Home N
Industry Screw Works
Place of Birth Smethwick

Householder 7
Name Elsie Mcgrath
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Condition / Years Married Single
Gender F
Age 13
Estimated Year of Birth 1898
Occupation At Home
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Smethwick

Hi - I am trying to find any past or present relatives of my now deceased father-in-law - John Leslie McGrath. Born on 29.10.1921 in Birmingham. Mother is listed on the birth cert as Elsie Winifred McGrath - dob 1898. No father listed. My f-i-l didn't grown up with the family. Believe Elsie had other siblings- Thomas, William, James and Fanny - and her parents were possibly Phoebe and Thomas McGrath. Elsie worked as a Machine Minder at Screw Works, 33 Slade Road, Birmingham. If anyone has information regarding any of the above I would be most grateful to hear from them.