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Hi Marieceleste, thank-you for this; I clicked by mistake and wasn't sure how to correct.
I came back to update as I've found - as always its probably, maybe, possibly - an answer to "who was Rose Matthews"? A tree in Ancestry has Mary Ann's eldest child Sarah Ann, marrrying George Matthews in 1856 but Rose is said to be 12 on 1861 census so I need to do a bit more investigating.
.I had no idea that I could search Ancestry, in fact this weeks learning curve is proving a bit steep!
What is even odder is that the same tree suggests that whilst Elizabeth the youngest of the four Swaffin children is Sarah's full sister the two in between -Cordelia and Henry jnr - are only half-siblings! Weird or what?

Hi Kath - I see you have marked this thread as answered, are you happy that you have all the information you wanted?

If not, go to your first post at the top and there will be a button that says something like "mark this as unanswered" - click on that otherwise people may stop looking for info.

Again so many answers - I'll start with the last one cos that was a typo - sorry.

Sarah's parents John and Mary appear on 2 census returns in 1851, their home in Chester with William and as visitors to Sarah & Edward in Gwersyllt near Wrexham. I haven't looked for them after this.

The Williams that you mention aren't the right one for me I'm fairly sure. Elizabeth and William marriage certificate gives his father as John,a Station Master, which links with William being station clerk at this time. I traced William from this certificate - it was unusual because Elizabeth was under 18 and her mother had to sign a statment giving her consent.

Another record that I didn't know was available online is the UK Employment record, when I looked for railway info I was told I would need to go London, do a paper search!

Marieceleste's two Williams worked for London and North Western and one of them in Abergavenny. He certainly is the better match as 'my' William is a railway clerk livingin Abergavenny on his marriage cert in 1855. His youngest child Charles is 2mths old in 1861 and William is already absent but he must[?] have been around for some of 1860 so not sure about the dates on the form.

just to query

in your opening post you say Sarah Ann & Edward Dean were in N Wales in 1861 - that is where they were in 1851

in 1861 they were living in Gorton, Manchester

Sarah Ann stated as being born in Manchester on both census

and the possible births for that William

Baptisms: 2 Nov 1836 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
William Critchley - Son of James Critchley & Anne
Abode: Eccleston
Occupation: Carter
Baptised by: George Slade
Register: Baptisms 1835 - 1842, Page 66, Entry 523
Source: LDS Film 1657584

Baptisms: 13 Aug 1837 St Mary (now St Helen), St Helens, Lancashire, England
William Critchley - Son of James Critchley & Emblem
Abode: Eccleston
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: W. Bawdwen
Register: Baptisms 1833 - 1841 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page [151], Entry 1206
Source: LDS Film 1469036


how did you trace back to your William please

I'm sure there was more than one

this is probably the one who died in Skelmersdale in 1877, the age matches (ie born 1837 not 1834 like yours)

Marriage: 10 Jul 1860 St Thomas, Eccleston, Lancashire, England
William Critchley - 23 Railway Clerk Bachelor of Eccleston
Anne Middlehurst - (X), 20 Spinster of Eccleston
Groom's Father: James Critchley, Labourer
Bride's Father: James Middlehurst, Cooper
Witness: Richard Holt; Elizabeth Middlehurst
Married by Banns by: Richard Greenall Incumbent
Register: Marriages 1858 - 1865, Page 59, Entry 117
Source: LDS Film 1849656

I'm not sure ifm there was more than one Wm Critchley working on the railways. This one was a fitter:

UK, Railway Employment Records, 1833-1963

Name: William Critchley
Residence Date: 9 Aug 1873 < The date he left employment.
Company: London and North Western
Class Number: 410
Piece: 1946
Description: Alphabetical registers 1872 - 1875

There are quite a few more records but I'm on lunch break so don't have time to go through them all.

UK, Railway Employment Records, 1833-1963

Name: William Critchley
Residence Date: 1838-1890
Station: Abergavenny
Company: London and North Western
Class Number: 410
Piece: 1859 < Not clear if this is the date
Description: Staff register including agents, guards, porters, ticket collectors, night watchmen, policemen, lampmen, clerks, office cleaners, greasemean, pointsmen, gatesmen, signalmen, van drivers etc. ... 1852 - 1860

He was a booking clerk, earned 19s 3d

I think the probate record mentioned above relates to this death:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915

Name: William Critchley
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1877
Age at Death: 39
Registration district: Ormskirk
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 553

Found him with his wife Anne on the 1871 and she's a widow on 1881.

a tree on Ancestry has this chap born St Helen's and married to Anne Middlehurst.

Hi everyone, I really didn't expect such quick responses. Its been more than 5 years since I last did anything with the tree and things have changed - GR is hardly recognisable!
You are all correct in most of what you have found/surmised. I think Elizabeth was born in Newport - I found baptisms for all four Swaffin children on 6/3/37 at St Woollos Newpor; her father was a master mariner. Her mother Mary Ann married three times (at least), problems with the Patterson/Pattison/pathson/Mattison took a while to sort.
Who Rose Matthews was I really don't know yet, her age puts her birth at c1849, the year hubby no2 Richard Hands dies and she is not on 1851 census with the four Swaffin children.
I think Wm going walkabout leaving his family to shift for itself seems likely.It explains everyone leaving Abergavenny to go to south where Mary Ann almost certainly had friends and family in the docks and among the seafaring population. Penny your Crutchley family is really Critchley - its the handwriting style on the census that links a curly r to the top of the i and is then transcribed by someone unfamiliar with the style.
I'm not so sure about the 1871 census info, the names match but is this the next generation using family names? In 1871 Elizabeth would be 34 and sister Cordelia 41 so 27 and 3??
However I didn't find this entry or the death in 1877 so I'll have to do some more digging .I'm also wondering - who are the parents of Jessie Anne cos my Elizabeth had'nt had a visible husband for some years.
There is also the problem[?] that both William and Critchley are both very common names in Lancashire as I'm sure you noticed so the familial links are important.
One last thing, Cagsie, where/how do you get probate records? - thats definitely something I do not recall ever seeing mentioned before.
Thanks everyone - All your info and input has really given me incentive to get back to trying to find the rest of the family

oh the plot thickens

have found probate entry for the william critchley station master skelmersdale d 20 feb 1877, but it says his estate, under £100, goes to his relict (widow) Anne

so did he "disappear" and remarry whilst his wife called herself a widow? or is this a totally different william that someone wrongly has in their tree?

mmm .... tricky !!

ooh just found a tree on ancestry that has william critchley death skelmersdale lancs in 1877, b1834 eccles
same marriage info and also info on trains in abergavenny

has elizabeth swafffin's parents as henry swaffin and mary ann gething who married hands then patterson

1871 - listed as a widow, age doesn't quiet fit, but there's the cordelia link


name: Eliza Swaffin
event: Census
event date: 1871
gender: Female
age: 27
relationship to head of household: Visitor
birthplace: Chepstow, Monmouthshire
record type: Household
registration district: Newport
sub-district: Newport
event parish: St Woollos
county: Monmouthshire
Household Gender Age Birthplace
self Thomas Dew M 69 Goodrich, Herefordshire
wife Ann Dew F 68 Monmouth, Monmouthshire
son Thomas Dew M 34 Chepstow, Monmouthshire
visitor Eliza Swaffin F 27 Chepstow, Monmouthshire
visitor Cordelia Swaffin F 3 Newport, Monmouthshire
visitor Jessie Anne Swaffin F 1 Everton, Lancashire

1851 - with another surname for mother mary


Name: Mary Ann Hruds
[Mary Ann Hands]
Age: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1803
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Chepstow, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: St Woollos
Ecclesiastical parish: St Woollos
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Newport
Sub-registration district: Newport
ED, institution, or vessel: 2h
Piece: 2452
Folio: 507
Page Number: 18
Household schedule number: 71
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Ann Hruds 48
Sarah Ann Swaffin 21
Cordelia Swaffin 19
Henry Swaffin 17
Elizabeth Swaffin 13

The surnames are a bit odd on that 1861- If Elizabeth was nee Swaffin her mother is Pathson (granted, could have remarried at some point) but Rosa Matthews is also listed as Mary Pathson's daughter?

am presuming you've seen this

name: Wm Critchley
event: Census
event date: 1871
gender: Male
age: 15
relationship to head of household: Grandson
birthplace: Abergavenny, Monmouthshire
record type: Household
registration district: Newport
sub-district: Newport
event parish: St Woollos
county: Monmouthshire
Household Gender Age Birthplace
self Mary Ann Patterson F 64 Chepstow, Monmouthshire
grandson Wm Critchley M 15 Abergavenny, Monmouthshire
grandson Jno Critchley M 14 Manchester

1861 for ref ( asume this is correct one)

Name: Alice Crutchley
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Crutchley
Gender: Female
Where born: Casetiff, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil Parish or Township: Newport St Woollos
Town: Newport
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales


Registration district: Newport
Sub-registration district: Newport
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Household schedule number: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4020
Folio: 3
Page Number: 8
Household Members: Name Age
Mary A Pathson 60
Elizabeth Crutchley 22 Newport, Somerset, England
William F Crutchley 4 Abergavenny
John Crutchley 3 Abergavenny
Alice Crutchley 2 Casetiff, Glamorgan, Wales
Charles H Crutchley 2/12 Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales
Rosa Mathews 12

In brackets it say Elizabeth Pathson

where was Elizabeth born please

The way to William seems to be sister Sarah but here is known info.
William is son of John Critchley c1811 and Mary c1816, possibly born Leigh,with a sister Sarah.
Family in Salford 1841, Chester 1851, John is station master..
William married Elizabeth Swaffin 1855 in Abergavenny, his occupation given as railway clerk.
Four children William, John, Alice, Charles all born in Abergavenny
Census 1861 lists Elizaeth and children, but not William snr.
Elizabeth is not on 1871 census but says she's a widow in 1881. All children tracked but nothing found for dad, no verifiable death record.
Sister Sarah Ann married Edward Henry Dean in 1850, they lived in North Wales in1861.
Lots of 'william critchley's found on later censuses but never been able to confirm that any of them is Elizabeth's missing hubby.
Critchley often spelled differently - Crutchley, Cutchley,etc