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I wonder if anybody can help me?
I am interested in the deaths of some of the children of my great grandparents:

David Davies (born c 1873 near Dudley)
and
Jane Hartill (born c 1874 near Hetton-le-Hole, Durham)

On the 1911 census it shows that my great grandparents had had 11 children, 7 of whom had died by 1911. I have recently made contact with a relative through GR and it seems that some of the children died in a fire, but so far has been unable to find out any information. I have no idea of the children's first names (though it seems likely from the 1901 census that one could have been Sarah (b.1897 Dudley)).

Apart from going to the local record offices in the areas where they were living in the 1901 and 1911 census (and where one of their children was born in c 1895) is there any way I can find out when they died? If I could find out this information I would then be able to see if any of the local newspapers at the time had an article about their deaths – I would imagine that this would be likely if children from the same family died in a fire. I’ve tried Google but had no luck so far.

These are the only facts that I have:

David and Jane Davies were married in Dudley in 1891.

1901 census – living at 31 Tantarra Street, Walsall, Staffordshire with children
(David and Jane’s places of birth are incorrect and are swapped!)
Sarah Davies (born c 1897 Dudley)
John Davies (born c 1895 Spinnimore – should be Spennymoor)
James Davies (c 1901 Walsall)

1911 census living at 67 King Street, South Kirkby, Yorkshire, West Riding
David and Jane with children
John Davies (born c 1896 Low Spennymoor, Co Durham)
James Davies (born 1891 Walsall)
Eliza Davies (born 1903 Walsall, Staffordshire)
Hilda Davies (born 1906 South Kirkby, Yorkshire)

David’s occupation was a coal miner and as such seemed to move around to find work so from the above it seems that during the period 1891 – 1911 they lived in Dudley, Walsall and South Kirkby, Yorkshire. They possibly also lived in Low Spennymoor (a mining area, but Jane may have been visiting relatives in the area when she gave birth to John). I’ve recently learned that Jane and David Davies died near Spennymoor in the mid C20th.

Any help or advice will be most gratefully received.

Diane

Bit of a problem as they moved around and may cost getting certs .

You could try FreeBMD for births and deaths between 1891 and 1911.

There seems to be big gaps in ages between the children listed on the 1901.


It may be a costly exercise getting certs that may or may not be the right family

have you contacted the archives where the fire happened. Tthey might be able to find a newspaper article.

Jan x

Shirley, yes there are big gaps. Most of the miners in my family tree had big families with children appearing every year or two and although it wasn't unusual for them to die very young it would seem to indicate some sort of tradgedy if 7 of them died. I hadn't thought of looking on FreeBMD and will do that now.

Jan, unfortunately I don't know where the fire was. If I find out where then I'll see if the archive has a newspaper as you suggest or look at the British Library Newspaper Library.

Thanks for your suggestions. I'll let youknow how I get on.

This is Sarah's birth

Births Dec 1898
Davies Sarah Dudley 6c 122

but I can't find a death for her between 1901 and 1911.

Do you know if all 7 perished together? I've tried looking for a batch of Davies child deaths but nothing so far.

I'm getting 1 result for sarah davies born 1898 +/- 1 born dudley in the 1911 census, but I can't get it to open. Just wondering if this could be your Sarah staying/working elsewhere in 1911. Wonder if someone could check it out please.

1911:
Name: Sarah Davies
Age in 1911: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1899
Relation to Head: Grandchild
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Dudley, St James, Worcestershire
Civil parish: Dudley
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street Address: 145 High St, 46 St James Terrace, Dudley
Occupation: school
Registration district: Dudley
Registration District Number: 372
Sub-registration district: Dudley
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Household schedule number: 265
Piece: 17432
Household Members:
Name Age
Rebecca Jones 75
Joseph Jones 43
Sarah Davies 12

Have yo tried the local library for these areas they are a mine of information sometimes also it is possible that the deaths occured in Stafs and they moved away because of it to Yorks.

Hi everyone

Had a quick trawl through freebmd but nothing jumping out at me as yet. I think I'll have another look there tomorrow (going out soon).

Janice – I couldn’t find a death of a Sarah Davies between those dates either (a Sarah Ann in 1906 in Barnsley so unlikely and no other young Davies deaths there in same quarter anyway). I’m afraid I don’t know how many perished in the fire unfortunately. Thanks so much for looking for a batch of Davies for me. Like you, I wondered if she was living elsewhere on census night 1911 but haven’t found her yet.

Jonesey – Thanks for following up the lead from Janice. I’ll investigate this family but her grandparents were Thomas and Eliza Davies and William and Jane Hartill so this seems unlikely at the moment

Jolee – I haven’t tried the local libraries yet as I’ve only just discovered this information about the fire but thanks as it’s a good idea. I think the theory that they might have moved from Staffs to Yorks because of it is a good one too – wouldn’t have thought of that!

Thanks to everyone who’s spent their time helping me so far. I’m out for the evening now and will get back on the case tomorrow.

Diane

After looking more thoroughly on freeBMD for deaths of young Davies/Davis in the Wasall, Dudley and Durham areas between 1891 - 1911 I have been unable to come up with anything conclusive.

I think I'll have to visit the local archives and libraries as has been suggested.

Thanks to everyone who's helped so far and I'm still happy to hear from anyone who might have any more advice or ideas.

Thanks again.
Diane

I know there's no hard and fast rules when it comes to naming patterns for children, but I would have thought that grandparents or parents names might feature, so I would be looking for births / deaths of a Thomas, William Jane and David.

Gwyn

Thanks Gwyn, that's a good idea. I'll make that tomorrow's task!

Thanks again.
Diane

Here's the marr:

Marriages Mar 1891 (>99%)
Davies David Dudley 6c 42
Faulkner Selina Dudley 6c 42
HARTILL Jane Dudley 6c 42
Provens Elon Dudley 6c 42

I would have expected to find them together in 1891, but no luck. (I'm presuming they're not on their honeymoon in Tenerife). Since they were on the young side, I was wondering if it were a shotgun wedding, and maybe their first-born was with them. (Do you say shotgun wedding in the UK - the idea is the bride's father is standing behind the groom with a loaded shotgun. Now I explain it, it definitely sounds more American.)

Using http://www.westmidlandsbmd.org.uk/
West Midlands Marriage indexes for the years: 1891
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
DAVIES David HARTILL Jane Dudley, St James Dudley Register Office 202/011/195


Here's the deah referred to:

Deaths Jun 1906 (>99%)
Davies Sarah Ann 8 Barnsley 9c 105

Seeing as Darfield's the next parish to S Kirkby, and Darfield's in Barnsley RD, I'm less willing to discount this - or do you know where in Barnsley RD this death occurred?

BARNSLEY REGISTRATION DISTRICT
Sub-districts : Barnsley, Darfield, Darton, Penistone, Worsbrough
Registers now held by : Barnsley and Wakefield (Wakefield).


Here's the missing bits of the 1901/11

Record set - 1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Parish - WALSALL
Ecclesiastical District - WALSALL FOREIGN
Enumeration District - 16
Municipal Ward - PADDOCK
Parliamentary Borough - WALSALL
Registration District - WALSALL
Sub District - WALSALL
Archive Reference - RG13 Piece Number - 2700 Folio - 91 Page - 8

Record set - 1911 Census for England & Wales
Registration District - HEMSWORTH
Sub District - HEMSWORTH EASTERN
Census Reference - RG14PN27524 RG78PN1575 RD506 SD1 ED13 SN216

What I'ld do next is try and pin down which RD/subdistrict 1891 was, and the 5 known births - this would give some sort of timeline for their flittings around the country.

Spennymoor's an awkward place - Spennymoor itself was in the Bishop Auckland subdistrict of Auckland RD, but Low Spennymoor straddled the subdistricts of Bishop Auckland and Sedgefield in Stockton RD (until 1896q1 when Sedgefield RD was created out of that part of Stockton RD).

Is this them in 1891? David Davies born Netherton Worcester , coal Hewer b 1872.
Jane Davies born 1874 Newcastle

1891 England Census about David Daries
Name: David Daries
[David Davies]
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Jane Daries
Gender: Male
Where born: Netherton, Worcestershire, England

Civil parish: Dudley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Dudley
Sub-registration district: Dudley
ED, institution, or vessel: 37
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2297
Folio: 110
Page Number: 51
Household Members:
Name Age
Jane Daries 40 widow
David Daries 19 says son in law, Married
Jane Daries 17 says daughter married
Florence Daries 16
William Daries 14
Sarah Daries 3
Martha Daries 14


Think they got very mixed up in this census....Jane Davies could be Jane Hartilll b 1851c . Martha Davies.....Martha Hartill? Florence Davies..........Hartill b 1875
william Davies.............Hartill b 1877 Sarah Davies,,,,,,,,Hartill b 1889