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Thanks Chris ................... Elizabeth (mother) is the daughter of Martha ... o the 1841 and 1851 census .............. so any off spring would be grandchildren

My headache is with Martha .................. the poster of the rootsweb info ... an Australian descended from Norfolk Marshall ............. is claiming as per my post ---- which is part of my email to her .......

This Martha .... married at 11 years 4 months ....started to give birth to children 2 years later ---until 1814 ------- then from 1814 t0 1821 ............ had no children ........the reappears same church has 3 more children .... one dies ------- leaving 2 o the 1841 census ... with a brother in law --

I have prove unless the miracle maker Martha can give birth to . live children 4 months after birth of the previous child ( Norfolk Bapt records give DOB amd Bapt date)

There were two James and Martha having children baptised

BUT who knows .............. and I am beginning to think...... who cares !!!!!!!

ps this is not my tree .......did a trade with a builder/carpenter --- so will not be putting DOB etc for Martha and James ...... just ending this line with the perfectly proven marriage cert of Martha Johnson and James Marshall ......... plus all the little one baptism certs .... showing exactly same Ma and Pa ---- with surnames ----------------


<3 <3

(lol, I keep all the answers in that red box!!)

Looks like there was a first Elizabeth ...


England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906
about Elizabeth Martha Hawes
Name: Elizabeth Martha Hawes
Gender: Female
Birth Date: abt 1845
Christening Date: 1 Jun 1845
Christening Place: Lakenham, Norfolk, England
Father's Name: John Hawes
Mother's name: Elizabeth

Deaths Dec 1845 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------------
HAWES Elizabeth Martha Norwich 13 162

Chris :)

It is all right for you ................ safe and sound in your Pillar Box



what about us out here.........................


unprotected ......................


:-D

~~~~~~~waves back, nice to see you both too!. Gracious, and I thought google was helping, lol...

Keep calm Renes!, "the truth will out, all will be revealed...hopefully!!.

Chris :)

That bl**dy marriage cert seems to "prove" ---- the mother is the girl married at 11 and giving birth at 14 giving birth

James was a brickmaker ----------------- however there were other James Marshalls and most of the Marshalls were brick makers

HELLO Chris .......how are you sweetie ........


Chris it is that posting ( and several others she makes ) -------- from a Australia that I am trying to prove is incorrect....... by trying to backtrack on the grand daughter !!!!!!!!!!

These are the records I have collected from her postings and comments

THE Martha Marshall ........ who says she was born 1791 Great Yarmouth .... actually 1786 according to Baptism --- who married 1798 ( I know aged 12 ( actually 11 year 4 months ) and gives birth Feb 1802 )

This is what she is saying and which I believe is NOT logical
BUT could have course happened


Name: Martha Johnson
Baptism/Christening Date: 20 Oct 1786
Baptism/Christening Place: St. Nicholas', Yarmouth, Norfolk, England
Birth Date: 18 Oct 1786
Birthplace: St. Nicholas, Great Yarmouth, Norfolk, England
Father's Name: Richard Johnson
Mother's Name: Mary Runnuf
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C16315-8
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1526328
Reference Number: items 4-

and so with a marriage ----------------13 Feb 1798 St Augustine ............. she was 11 years old 4 months old ........... and as you say in the 1851 census ...... she claims to be born 1791............. and would therefore be 7 years at marriage and 11 years at birth of James .......................IMHO -------------- something is odd very odd

In the 1841 census ....rounding down to nearest .5 years James would be c 66 to 69 ----- so c 1772 to 1775 ---- Martha 51 to 54 ---------c 1886 to 1890 ....... BUT as brother in law Joseph was given ( 1851 ) as aged 71 b 1780 and ( 1841) aged 55 c 1786 --- I give up .......... and of course the two children shown with them in 1841 are the two children born after the long 8 or 9 year gap ------- in the Parish Records ...... and have proved with Sarah Marshall that another Robert and Martha Marshall were having children baptised at St John de Sepulchre Norwich

It follows that if the children are not James & Martha Marshall nee Johnson ..... the 1851 census is not Martha Johnson either .....

Well I feel I have done enough research on Marshall to prove nothing beyond Robert Marshall b 1808 marrying Phoebe Smith marrying in 25th December 1830 ..... at St Stephens.... with witnesses William and Mary Marshall ---------- I do know that Robert had a brother William ( both of Martha nee Johnson ) and there is a sister Mary ( although the nee Johnson is not shown ) and I seen Williams marriage to Mary Ann Rix in All Saints ............... so

I know their parents were named Robert Marshall and Martha Johnson

from where I cannot prove ...............

Thanks Chris .................xxxx

Great minds think alike Chris Ho....Hello ,nice to see you again~~~~~~~~~~~~

I found most of that "on the side"for Renes,but not as much as you ....And to have you find it too makes it pretty good looking to me..

You hear that Renes...?????

Beggered if I can find Elizabeth Martha 1847 on any census or BMD after 1851 with grandparent though....Did they emigrate after 1851??

Cant find John and Elizabeth for sure on 1851 either>>

So will leave it with your more than clever head. :-D :-D :-D

Births Sep 1847 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------------
HAWES Elizabeth Martha Norwich 13 233


Marriages Dec 1843 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Hawes John Norwich 13 637
Marshall Elizabeth Norwich 13 637


1841

MARSHALL, James M 65 1776 Norfolk (Brickmaker)
MARSHALL, Martha F 50 1791 Norfolk
MARSHALL, John M 20 1821 Norfolk (Brickmaker)
MARSHALL, Elizabeth F 15 1826 Norfolk
MARSHALL, Joseph M 55 1786 Norfolk (B. Labourer)
Piece: 787
Book/Folio: 10
Page: 12
Registration District: Norwich
Civil Parish: Lakenham
Municipal Borough: Norwich
Address: Blake's Buildings, Lakenham, Norwich
County: Norfolk

(just working on a wild theory Renes!, came across the 1843 Marriage on google, below link, has a copy of Cert.)


http://www.howesfamilies.com/getperson.php?personID=I7019&tree=Onename

Chris :)

(putting james marshall martha lakenham on a google search brings up a RootsWeb item below)


Their daughter MARTHA C 1786 m JAMES MARSHALL Norwich 1798 my gtx4 grand parents

1841 census James 65yrs and Martha 50yrs are living, Ansell - Blaket building Lakenham with children Eliazabeth 15 and John 20yrs and James' brother, Joseph 55 yrs is also living with them. All the males are brickmakers although other family members are wood carvers and painters

1851 Martha 60yrs widow w occ infant school teacher is still living in Lakenham Norwich If you have a connection to this line I have done quite abit of research and am happy to share

Astra

Thanks

I also cannot find that group minus Elizabeth in 1851 --------------



OOPS Astra seems to have deleted -

Thanks both

so Hovey in Ancest..ry ........... and no farher forward ..... I can find

No birth anywhere --------No Death

No Census

Nothing

Martha Marshall
England and Wales Census, 1841
birth: 1791 Norfolk
census: 1841 Lakenham,? Norwich,? Norfolk,? England


name: Martha Marshall
event: Census
event date: 1841
gender: Female
age: 50
birthplace: Norfolk
record type: Household
registration district: Norwich
sub-district: Mancroft
civil parish: Lakenham
county: Norfolk

Ancestry 1851 transcription error??????

1851 England Census
about Elizabeth Hovey
Name: Elizabeth Hovey
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Granddaughter
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Norwich, Norfolk, England

Civil parish: Norwich Lakenham
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Norwich
Sub-registration district: Mancroft
ED, institution, or vessel: 1d
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 94
Piece: 1815
Folio: 92
Page Number: 20
Household Members: Name Age
Martha Marthall 60
Joseph Marthall 71
Elizabeth Hovey 4


George

not much use here

Elizabeth Harvey
England and Wales Census, 1851
birth: Norwich
census: 1851 England


name: Elizabeth Harvey
age: 6
gender: F
birthplace: Norwich
relationship to head of household: Daughter
record type: Household

I am stuck Can somewhere help please ............. I am trying to ascertain who this granddaughter belongs too ------------but I cannot find anything on her ...........PLUS to double check the census cannot find this census on Anc^^try ----------

FMP 1851 census transcription details for: Lexteen Row, Lakenham Norwich, Norwich
RG number: HO107 Piece: 1815 Folio: 92 Page: 20
Reg. District: Norwich Sub District: Mancroft Parish: Lakenham Norwich
Enum. District: 1D City/Municipal Borough: Norwich
Address: Lexteen Row, Lakenham Norwich, Norwich County: Norfolk
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Where Born
MARSHALL, Martha Head Widow F 60 1791 School Infants Mistress Yarmouth, Norfolk
MARSHALL, Joseph Brother In Law Widower M 71 1780 Norwich, Norfolk
HAVEY, Elizabeth Grand Daughter F 4 1847 Scholar Norwich, Norfolk


Thank You