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Hi,

Does anyone have any information regarding John Edwin James Hale (c1893) or his father James Hale. Both were travellinf showmen from the information I have. (John was my Grandfather and married my Grandma in Wellingborough, Northants in 1932.)

Simon

Hello Simon and welcome to the boards.

What sort of info are you after?

Might he have been a few years older than you thought?

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: John Edwin J Hale
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1890
Registration district: Bedford
Inferred County: Bedfordshire
Volume: 3b
Page: 293

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2006
Name: John E J Hale
Birth Date: abt 1890
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1940
Age at Death: 50
Registration district: North Bucks
Inferred County: Buckinghamshire
Volume: 3a
Page: 3018

According to an unsourced tree on Ancestry the mother was Annie MAtilda Pheasey, in which case this 1901 would fit:

PHEASEY, Edwin Head Married M 60 1841 Carpenter Bolnhurst, Bedfordshire
PHEASEY, Emma Wife Married F 61 1840 Bedford
HALE, Maude Grand Daughter F 12 1889 St Neots, Huntingdonshire
HALE, John Grand Son M 10 1891 Thurleigh, Bedfordshire
HALE, Arthur Grand Son M 8 1893 Bedford

Piece: 1492 Folio: 142 Page: 8
Registration District: Bedford
Civil Parish: Bedford Western Ward St Paul

Address: 22, Gwyn Street, Bedford Western Ward St Paul, Bedford County: Bedfordshire

That family in 1891:

PHEASEY, Edwin Head Married M 51 1840 Publican Bolnhurst, Bedfordshire
PHEASEY, Emma Wife Married F 52 1839 Bedford, Bedfordshire
HALE, James Son In Law Married M 30 1861 Dealer (shop) Biggleswade, Bedfordshire
HALE, Annie Wife Married F 24 1867 Bedford, Bedfordshire
HALE, Maud Daughter F 2 1889 St Neots, Huntingdonshire
HALE, John Son M 0 (11M) 1891 Thurleigh, Bedfordshire

Piece: 1245 Folio: 52 Page: 6
Registration District: Bedford
Civil Parish: Thurleigh

Address: Church End, Thurleigh County: Bedfordshire

Perhaps James also sold his wares at fairs?

1911 census transcription details for: St Neots


National Archive Reference:

RG14PN8817 RG78PN462 RD173 SD2 ED11 SN40
Reg. District: St Neots
Sub District: Kimbolton
Parish: Eaton Socon
Enum. District: 11
Address: St Neots
County: Huntingdonshire
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
>>HALE, James Head Married M 52 1859 General Dealer Biggleswade
HALE, Annie Wife Married
23 years F 43 1868 Bedford
HALE, Maud Single F 22 1889 St Neots
>>HALE, John Single M 20 1891 General Dealer Thurleigh
HALE, Isabella Single F 16 1895 Bedford
HALE, Osborn Single M 14 1897 Eaton Socon
HALE, Emily F 10 1901 Bedford
HALE, Jane F 5 1906 Eaton Socon
MANTLE, Thomas Visitor Single M 29 1882 General Dealer Covington


According to the enumerator's book, they lived in 2 caravans in a field. 7 children had been born and were still living.
Perhaps this is where the 'travelling' came from?

1911:

HALE, James Head Married M 52 1859 General Dealer Biggleswade
HALE, Annie Wife Married 23 years F 43 1868 Bedford
HALE, Maud Single F 22 1889 St Neots
HALE, John Single M 20 1891 General Dealer Thurleigh
HALE, Isabella Single F 16 1895 Bedford
HALE, Osborn Single M 14 1897 Eaton Socon
HALE, Emily F 10 1901 Bedford
HALE, Jane F 5 1906 Eaton Socon
MANTLE, Thomas Visitor Single M 29 1882 General Dealer Covington

RG number: RG14 Piece: 8817 Reference: RG14PN8817 RG78PN462 RD173 SD2 ED11 SN40
Registration District: St Neots
Sub District: Kimbolton
Enumeration District: 11 Parish: Eaton Socon

Address: St Neots County: Huntingdonshire

** Annie had 7 children, all alive

Looks like James and Annie and the rest of the family in 1901:

HALES, James Head Married M 42 1859 Horse Dealer Biggleswade, Bedfordshire
HALES, Annie Wife Married F 34 1867 Biggleswade, Bedfordshire
HALES, Bella Daughter F 6 1895 Biggleswade, Bedfordshire
HALES, Osborn Son M 3 1898 Eaton Socon, Bedfordshire
KESBY, Keziah J Visitor Single F 19 1882 Alconbury, Huntingdonshire
PRIMOSE, Fred Visitor Single M 20 1881 Farm Labourer Luton, Bedfordshire

Piece: 1475 Folio: 104 Page: 14
Registration District: Huntingdon
Civil Parish: Godmanchester

Address: Post Street, Godmanchester County: Huntingdonshire

Was he previously married?

England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005 about John E J Hale
Name: John E J Hale
Spouse: Edith M Plumb
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1921
Registration district: Kettering
Inferred County: Northamptonshire
Volume Number: 3b
Page Number: 497

It looks like there were three children born to that marriage (possibly twin girls). I won't post the details in case they're still alive, but they're easily found on FreeBMD http://www.freebmd.org.uk

There is a death that would fit if he was first married to Edith M. Plumb:-

Deaths Dec 1926 (>99%)
Hale Edith M 31 Wellingbro' 3b 145
(date of birth would be abt. 1895)

Looks like John EJ's parent's marriage:

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1888
HALE James Bedford 3b 392
Pheasey Annie Matilda Bedford 3b 392

I don't know about travelling showmen but father John was a horse dealer (see 1901) and as such may well have travelled around to horse fairs which were big events (look at Appleby now) so that may be how a fairground association has been made.

Will send a message to Simon in case he's expecting to be notified of replies.

Just found this:

England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

name: Annie Matilda Pheasey
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 22 May 1867
baptism/christening place: SAINT PAUL,BEDFORD,BEDFORD,ENGLAND
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: Edwin Pheasey
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Emma
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: C06202-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 952396, 952397
reference number:

Source Citation
"England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JWVP-9SW : accessed 31 May 2012), Annie Matilda Pheasey, 1867.

Hi everyone!

Thankyou so much for all the info. I thew this out just before going out last night and didn't expect such a quck response! There's a lot for me to take in.

Just to fill you all in, typically of my family, nobody taklked about 'the past' and as my Gfather died before my Mum was born, I never got told anything about him. My Brother mentioned that he was told by someone that he was part of a travelling fair before meeting my Grandma. I received a copy of their wedding cert yesterday and the occupation given for both my Gfather & his Dad is 'travelling showman' - hence me using the term. He was also a widower, so the 'other' marriage ties in. I remember my MuMm mentioning that there were twins somewhere but I was very young and time has faded the memory!

Thanks for your help again!!

You're very welcome Simon. There should be enough here to enable you to work back through census and find BMD records, but do come back on here if you need further help.

As for the twins, if you go to FreeBMD http://www.freebmd.org.uk/ and do a search for births with surname Hale and mother's maiden name Plumb you will find them.

Here's Edith.

1901 census transcription details for: 53, Hill Street, Wellingborough
Print Close

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13
Piece: 1444
Folio: 51
Page: 50
Reg. District: Wellingborough
Sub District: Wellingborough
Parish: Wellingborough
Enum. District: 15
Ecclesiastical District: St Lukes
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 53, Hill Street, Wellingborough
County: Northamptonshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
PLUMB, Ben Head Married M 39 1862 General Labourer
Broughton, Northamptonshire
PLUMB, Helen Wife Married F 30 1871
Sutton, Bedfordshire
PLUMB, Eleanor G Daughter F 10 1891
Broughton, Northamptonshire
PLUMB, Thomas H Son M 9 1892
Broughton, Northamptonshire
PLUMB, Richard A Son M 6 1895
Northampton
PLUMB, Edith M Daughter F 5 1896
Northampton
PLUMB, William P Son M 4 1897
Northampton
PLUMB, Ernest Son M 0 (4 MOS) 1901
W'boro, Northamptonshire


1911 census transcription details for: 9 a Cannon Street Wellingborough
Print Close

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN8526 RG78PN441 RD166 SD1 ED18 SN160
Reg. District: Wellingborough
Sub District: Wellingborough
Parish: Wellingborough
Enum. District: 18
Address: 9 a Cannon Street Wellingborough
County: Northamptonshire
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
PLUMB, Benjamin R S Head Married M 49 1862 Farm Labourer Broughton Near Kettering Northants
PLUMB, Ellen Wife Married
20 years F 41 1870 Sutton Bedfordshire Northants
PLUMB, Thomas Henry Son Single M 19 1892 Licenced Hawker Broughton Kettering Northants
PLUMB, Edith Mary Daughter Single F 15 1896 Northampton Northants
PLUMB, William Percy Son Single M 14 1897 Northampton Northants
PLUMB, Ernest Son Single M 10 1901 Welingborough Northants
PLUMB, John Stanton Son M 7 1904 Welingborough Northants
PLUMB, Elsie Marion Daughter F 6 1905 Finedon Wellingboro Northants
PLUMB, Hilda Audrey Daughter F 3 1908 Wellingborough Northants
PLUMB, Dorothy Evelyn Daughter F 0 (5 MONTHS) 1911 Wellingborough Northant

12 children born, 10 still living.

County Bedfordshire
Place Eaton Socon
Church St Mary
RegisterNumber
DateOfBirth
BaptismDate 31 May 1891
Forename John Edwin James
Sex M
FatherForename James
MotherForename Annie
FatherSurname HALE
MotherSurname
Abode Eaton Socon
FatherOccupation General Dealer
Notes By whom the ceremony was performed R H BIRCH
FileNumber 11633