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Mike quotes the info on IGI as submitted, but this is a "proper" record:

England, Marriages, 1538–1973

groom's name: James Watson
groom's birth date:
groom's birthplace:
groom's age:
bride's name: Martha Rodgers
bride's birth date:
bride's birthplace:
bride's age:
marriage date: 22 Dec 1828
marriage place: Cathedral Saint Peter,Sheffield,York,England
groom's father's name:
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name:
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status:
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status:
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number: M00775-2
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 919328, 919329, 919360, 919361, 919362
reference number:

Source Citation
"England, Marriages, 1538–1973 ," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N2WY-5H9 : accessed 27 May 2012), Martha Rodgers, 1828.

Patricia, the info was from familysearch.org ( old site)
It was submitted by someone in USA

Folks:

Further to Multimom4's post - relax for a while, I have now found the said WATSONs in the 1851 UK census. Have also found one of their children Martha (circa 1838) in the 1841 census (via IGI) but unable as yet to locate the entire family.
Continued thanks for all your efforts - with tongue in cheek - nice to keep you one your toes !!!!

Thanks

Mike: Where did you find tho sheets on Joseph E Watson and on James Watson's birth, parentage and marriage?

They look like the IGI format, but I have been round and round the old IGI website and other than Mary Barber marrying Thomas Watson, I am finding nothing.

Thanks.

Hi MarieCeleste --

I'm the Multimom4 that amended the 1871 census for Joseph Edwin Watson.

David and I are stumped on the background of Watson/Kinney. We have her birth and his 1871 census at age 14, and their marriage. But our info on their backgrounds, parents, sibs, etc. is sketchy to non-existent, esp. for him.

Your point about Annie potentially being illegitimate is interesting. I guess if she was officially Collins, the priest could have just accidentally used her maiden name as father's surname at the wedding, without realizing. But she was Kinney at her baptism, and allowing her to use her father's surname if she was illeg. seems too liberal for 19th C Irish RC baptism, to me. Still, there's no way to know without parents' Irish wedding details and we haven't been able to track that down.

One big issue for us is Martha Millicent Rodgers. We have seen the name before, but always unsourced, and it's a mystery where people are finding it? The James Watson material quoted above looks like it comes from IGI, but I don't think there's a source there, either?

Also,. where did Joseph spring from? We can't find a census for his family before he was 14 (he was an apprentice file cutter in Sheffield age 14 but he was not living at home). Nor can we find his parents before his birth.

Another issue is what happened to the other Kinney kids -- there were 4 kids that ended up in USA with parents. But there were also Bridget bap1856 and Catharine bap1861. They are like a puff of smoke. Can't work out if they died, emigrated or ?

Are there census records for Ireland anywhere? If we could trace the 1840s-1870s, we might be able to work out when exactly the parents and other kids emigrated, and what happened to the two youngest girls.

etc etc! Thanks.

David - you're very welcome. It's really useful to us if you state at the outset the info you already have just to save us duplicating (although we usually post census etc to let us see what to work from).

Are there any other records we can help with? census, etc?

Just a thought about Annie's father's name - I see from the death records that Annie appears to be the first born. When did John Owen and Mary actually marry? If Annie was born before her parents married then she would technically be a Collins (although she may well have been known as Kinney) and this may be how she's translated the surnames.

Very many thanks for all the replies, for which I am eternally grateful.

MarieCeleste - I must apologise, for I do have some information on them, some of which is repeated in the thread(s).

Andrew:- Thank you for your input and advice - it is worthy of note that on their marriage certicate - ANNIE's Father is listed as JOHN OWEN COLLINS - whereas she is clearly a KINNEY at birth. The only conclusion I can deduce from the marriage is that ANNIE used her Mother's maiden name to denote what her Father's name was. Hope this makes sense.

Once again thanks to all - I have discovered some interesting facts from the replies to which I am indebted.

Thanks to all

David - in your opening post you said you had no other info on them, so how did you come across them?

EDIT: Have sent pm in case David is expecting GR to notify him of replies.

Looks like they did a wife-swap!!!

1870 United States Federal Census

Name: J F Bearmore [John Thomas Beasmore]
Age in 1870: 27
Birth Year: abt 1843
Birthplace: Illinois
Home in 1870: Lowden, Cedar, Iowa
Race: White
Gender: Male
Post Office: Lowden
Value of real estate:

Household Members:
Name Age
J F Bearmore 27 - Laborer
Sitney Bearmore 28 b Iowa
Clara A Bearmore 4
Oscar S Bearmore 3
William F Bearmore 7/12

1900 United States Federal Census

Name: Annie E Beasmore
Age: 56
Birth Date: Apr 1844
Birthplace: Ireland
Home in 1900: Township 9, Placer, California
Race: White
Gender: Female
Immigration Year: 1876
Relation to Head of House: Wife
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: John T Beasmore
Marriage Year: 1886
Years Married: 14
Father's Birthplace: Ireland
Mother's Birthplace: Ireland
Occupation:
Neighbors:

Household Members:
Name Age
John T Beasmore 57 - Stationary Engineer, b Sep 1842 Illinois.
Annie E Beasmore 56

Iowa State Census Collection - 1885

Name: Joseph Watson
Birth Year: abt 1845
Birth Place: England
Gender: Male
Marital Status: D (Divorced)
Census Date: 1885
Residence State: Iowa
Residence County: Linn
Locality: Lisbon
Roll: IA1885_219
Line: 24
Family Number: 163
Neighbors:

Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Watson 40 Laborer
James Watson 16

They were living Sixth Avenue

1900 United States Federal Census
Name: Joseph Watson
Age: 54
Birth Date: Oct 1845
Birthplace: England
Home in 1900: Franklin, Linn, Iowa [Linn]
Race: White
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1876
Relation to Head of House: Head
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Sitney Watson
Marriage Year: 1897
Years Married: 3
Father's Birthplace: England
Mother's Birthplace: England
Occupation: RR Track Laborer
Neighbors:

Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Watson 54
Sitney Watson 58 b Feb 1842 Iowa
Harry Cray 3 grandson - b Apr 1897 Iowa
Nettie Cray 25 step-daughter - b Aug 1874 Iowa

Mary K. Collins Kinney

Birth: Jan. 6, 1820
County Roscommon, Ireland
Death: Feb. 7, 1907 Kimball, Kimball County, Nebraska, USA

Daughter of Patrick Collins and Bridget Connely.
Wife of John Owen Kinney.

Family links:
Spouse: John Owen Kinney (1804 - 1883)*

Children:
Ann Elizabeth Kinney Watson Beasmore (1842 - 1930)*
James Joseph Kinney (1845 - 1925)*
Edward Collins Kinney (1848 - 1930)*
Margaret Maria Kinney Hutton (1859 - 1926)*

*Calculated relationship

Burial: Lisbon Cemetery, Lisbon, Linn County, Iowa, USA

Created by: CM
Record added: Sep 04, 2007
Find A Grave Memorial# 21360452

John Owen Kinney

Birth: 1804
County Roscommon, Ireland
Death: Apr. 28, 1883
Lisbon
Linn County
Iowa, USA

Husband of Mary K. Collins Kinney.

Family links:
Spouse: Mary K. Collins Kinney (1820 - 1907)

Children:
Ann Elizabeth Kinney Watson Beasmore (1842 - 1930)*
James Joseph Kinney (1845 - 1925)*
Edward Collins Kinney (1848 - 1930)*
Margaret Maria Kinney Hutton (1859 - 1926)*

*Calculated relationship

Burial:
Lisbon Cemetery, Lisbon, Linn County, Iowa, USA

Created by: CM
Record added: Sep 04, 2007
Find A Grave Memorial# 21360499

Ann Elizabeth Kinney Watson Beasmore

Birth: Sep. 3, 1842
County Roscommon, Ireland
Death: Apr. 29, 1930
Rocklin
Placer County
California, USA

Daughter of John Owen Kinney and Mary K. Collins Kinney.
Wife of (1) Joseph Edwin Watson and (2) John Thomas Beasmore.

BEASMORE, ANNIE nee KINNEY WATSON
Roseville Tribune and Register, Wednesday, 5-2-1930 Mrs. Annie Beasmore Will Be Buried Today

Funeral services for Mrs. Annie Beasmore, 83, a resident of Rocklin for more than forty years, will be held at the graveside in the Rocklin Cemetery at 2 o'clock today. Mrs. Beasmore died at her home Tuesday evening. Surviving her are a daughter, Mrs. Minnie Kinkler of Sacramento, and two sons, James J. Watson of Sacramento and J. F. Watson of San Francisco. She also leaves 24 grandchildren and 39 great-grandchildren.

From Find a Grave

A photo of her:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=21744854

Web: Iowa, Find A Grave Index, 1838-2011
Name: Joseph Edwin Watson
Birth Date: 28 oct. 1846
Age at Death: 59
Death Date: 26 nov. 1905
Burial Place: Lisbon, Linn County (Linn), Iowa, USA

Birth: Oct. 28, 1846
z-*Yorkshire, England
Death: Nov. 26, 1905 Lisbon, Linn County, Iowa, USA

Son of James Watson and Martha Millecent Rodgers Watson.
Wife of (1) Ann Elizabeth Kinney (Divorced) and (2) Sitney Ann VanHorn.

The stones are unreadable so we don't know which is which. They are in Block 1.

Family links:
Spouses:
Ann Elizabeth Kinney Watson Beasmore (1842 - 1930)
Sitney Ann VanHorn Watson (1842 - 1912)

Children:
Margaret Emma Watson Kinkler (1873 - 1947)*

*Calculated relationship

Burial: Lisbon Cemetery, Lisbon, Linn County, Iowa, USA

Created by: CM
Record added: Sep 04, 2007
Find A Grave Memorial# 21360566

Possibly:

1880 United States Federal Census
Name: Joseph Watson
Age: 33
Birth Year: abt 1847
Birthplace: England
Home in 1880: Lisbon, Linn, Iowa
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Self (Head)
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Anna E. Watson < born Ireland
Father's Birthplace: England
Mother's Birthplace: England
Neighbors: View others on page
Occupation: Rr Laborer
Cannot read/write:
Blind:
Deaf and dumb:
Otherwise disabled:
Idiotic or insane:

Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Watson 33
Anna E. Watson 37
James J. Watson 11
Mary A. Watson 10
M. E. Watson 7
John E. Watson 6

Children all born England.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

James WATSON

Event(s)
Birth: 24 Oct 1801
, Sheffield, Yorkshire, England

Christening: 29 Nov 1801
St. Peter Cath., Sheffield, Yorkshire, England

Death: 25 Oct 1873
Carsick Hill, Sheffield, Yorkshire, England

Burial: 29 Oct 1873
Fullwood Chapel, Sheffield, Yorkshire, England

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Parents
Father: Thomas WATSON
Mother: Mary BARBER
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marriage(s)
Spouse: Martha Millecent RODGERS
Marriage: 22 Dec 1828
St. Peters, Sheffield, Yorkshire, England


Spouse: Jane
Marriage: Abt 1856
, , Yorkshire, England
------------------------------------------

....possibly

Marriages Sep 1855
Trotter Jane - Sheffield 9c 371
WATSON James - Sheffield 9c 371

Joseph E WATSON--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Event(s)
Birth: 28 Oct 1847
Upper Hallam, Sheffield, Yorkshire, England

Death: 26 Nov 1905
Lisbon, Linn, Iowa

Burial: 28 Nov 1905
Lisbon, Linn, Iowa

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Parents
Father: James WATSON
Mother: Martha Millecent RODGERS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marriage(s)
Spouse: Ann Elizabeth KINNEY
Marriage: Abt 1868
, , England


Spouse: Sitney Ann VAN HORN
Marriage: 14 Jun 1897
, , Iowa

Hi David and welcome to GR message boards.

A copy of their marriage will confirm fathers details

This is 1871 census

The entry has been corrected and the note says

Joseph Edwin Watson rather than Joseph Walson
Same family that emigrated to USA c.1874.
Submitted by multimom4 on 24/03/2012


1871 England Census
about Joseph Walson
Name: Joseph Walson
[Joseph Edwin Watson]
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann Watson
Gender: Male
Where born: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Upper Hallam
Ecclesiastical parish: Fulwood
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Ecclesall Bierlow
Sub-registration district: Upper Hallam
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Household schedule number: 60
Piece: 4666
Folio: 64
Page Number: 13
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Walson 24
Ann Watson 26
James Joseph Watson 2
Mary Ann Watson 10 Months


Andy