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The lady in question is the grandaughter of Mabel Bell 1881 sister to Clara 1880.

If she doesn't get intouch I may have found her email address,so all is not lost.

Maryb.

Thank you Mary hope she gets intouch
Gwyntht is interesting as my Uncle married a Muriel Ryan Carlisle

Army records show that Joseph RYAN married Clara BELL, spinster at Stanwix, Carlisle on 25 August 1910
Address at time of enlistment was 223 Greystone Road, Carlisle

Children listed as.........
Clara Olive b.24 May 1911
Muriel b.30 July 1914
Ida..b. 16 November 1915.

All born in Carlisle

Gwyn

Hi Fregar,maybe you won't have to send for that certificate if the lady on Ancestry gets intouch with you.
If she has photos of Clara and Joe then surely she knows who Joe's parents and Clara's were.
There are also photos of all Clara's mum and dad

Maryb.

Good morning Glitterbaby, Clara Bell Married Joseph Ryan Carlisle Sept 1910 but do not have certificate, l will send for it

BUT there are two births for Clara Bell in Carlisle 1880 and 1885, probably might be more but did not check any other years

1891 I have posted matches the tree on Ancestry and her age on 1911 census

Do you have the marriage cert for the name of her father ?

Hi Glitterbaby l have Clara Bell Carlisle Sept 1885 10b 484

1891 ?
Name: Clara Bell
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James Bell
Mother's Name: Clara J Bell
Gender: Female
Where born: Carlisle, Cumberland, England

Civil parish: Kingmoor
Ecclesiastical parish: Houghton St John
Town: Kingmoor
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Carlisle
Sub-registration district: Stanwix
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4292
Folio: 96
Page Number: 3
Household Members: Name Age
James Bell 46 - Carlisle
Clara J Bell 42 - Sheffield
William Bell 21
John B Bell 19
Janet Bell 13
Mabel Bell 8
Ethel Bell 6
Clara Bell 10

Class: RG12; Piece: 4292; Folio: 96; Page: 3; GSU roll: 6099402.

??

Name: Clara Ryan
Birth Date: abt 1880
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1952
Age at Death: 72
Registration district: Carlisle
Inferred County: Cumberland
Volume: 1a
Page: 36

Where have you got 1885 for birth year of Clara from ?

Births Jun 1880 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BELL Clara Carlisle 10b 526


Births Sep 1885 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bell Clara Carlisle 10b 484

Mary and Gwyn in Kent, many thanks for your offers, would like the information Gwyn - Mary have sent an email

1911 suggest 1881 for year of birth for Clara

RYAN, Joseph Head Married M 28 1883 Solicitors Clerk Carlisle Cumberland VIEW
RYAN, Clara Wife Married F 30 1881 Carlisle Cumberland VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
31326 Reference:
RG14PN31326 RG78PN1797 RD574 SD3 ED5 SN240

Registration District:
Carlisle Sub District:
St Mary Enumeration District:
5 Parish:
Carlisle

Address:
2 Thirlwell Terrace Carlisle



1901
possible but again born 1881
Clara is a servant

Joseph was a Gunner in the Army, resulting in 30% deafness when he was discharged.
Records also show his date of marriage and ages of his 3 daughters.

Will post if you don't have this information.

Gwyn

Tree on Ancestry with photo's of Clara born 1881 and Joe Ryan at her sisters wedding in 1913.

Her parents were James W bell 1843-1898 and Clara Jane Buxton 1850 - 1923.

Joe's were Thomas and Jane Ryan.

Maryb

You both are the TOPS, thank you so very much, Anne :-D

Joseph's military record notes are on Ancestry.
He is shown to be 32 yrs 9mths on enlistment 0n 4 December 1915.

His occupation was solicitors mang. clerk.

( will look for further clues in his notes....)

Gwyn

1891 England Census
Clara Bell Age: 5 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation: Daughter Father's Name: Matthew Bell
Mother's Name: Margaret Bell
Gender: Female Where born: Carlisle, Cumberland, England
Civil parish: St Cuthbert Without Ecclesiastical parish: St John
Town: Carlisle County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England
Registration district: Carlisle Sub-registration district: St Cuthbert
ED, institution, or vessel: 13 Piece: 4287 Folio: 8 Page Number: 9
Matthew Bell 38
Margaret Bell 36
Mary E Bell 12
Clara Bell 5
Thomas Little 22
Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 4287; Folio: 8; Page: 9; GSU roll: 6099397.

?
1891 England Census about Joseph Ryan
Name: Joseph Ryan
Age: 8 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas Ryan
Mother's Name: Jane Ryan
Gender: Male Civil parish: St Cuthbert Without
Ecclesiastical parish: Saint Stephen Town: Carlisle County/Island: Cumberland Country: England Registration district: Carlisle
Sub-registration district: St Cuthbert
ED, institution, or vessel: 11 Piece: 4286 Folio: 87 Page Number: 29
Thomas Ryan 45
Jane Ryan 41
Robert Ryan 21
Charlotte Ryan 18
Mary J Ryan 12
Margaret Ryan 10
Joseph Ryan 8
Beatrice Ryan 5
Thomas Ryan 3
Ada Ryan 1
Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 4286; Folio: 87; Page: 29; GSU roll: 6099396.

You need the marriage certificate for Fathers' names.

Hi Patchem, no do not know their parents,

Do you know their parents?
Thanks