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Have now got John Jones death certificate. He died at home on 18th Feb 1912 (home being 16 Faraday Street) and the death was registered by his son John Robert Jones of 12 Cupid Street

Hi, just realised that you also wanted John Jones' death certificate. The death certificate only records the place of death (see below), but if he died at home, then by looking at the details of the 1911 census, you can home in on the likely reference on FreeBMD.

In this case, the death would be registered in the Jan-Mar quarter of 1912 in Lancashire. There are 15 possible entries, but most are babies. There are 4 entries over 60, and 3 younger men. He was 74 in 1911, so we can probably rule out the deaths aged 62 and 63.

The other two are:

Jones John 74 W.Derby 8b 683 (more likely)
Jones John 75 Chorlton 8c 966 (closer to Manchester)

The 1911 census details given above show that the family were living in the West Derby registration district, so if he died at or close to home, the first entry is more likely. If he died out of the West Derby district, but in Lancashire, then the second is a possible, but if he died in a Chorlton hospital and the informant was a member of staff, then there will be nothing on the death certificate to show that you have the correct man. Have you already bought the first certificate? If not, it can be purchased for under £10 online from http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ .

[Extract re details on death certificates:
"The place of death could be anywhere! Note that you do not necessarily have the address of the deceased. Column 1 is the place where the death occurred and Column 7 gives the address of the person registering the death but nowhere is there a column which gives the specific address of the deceased. If someone dies away from home and the death is registered by someone other than the wife or husband of the deceased you do not have the home address of the deceased"
From: http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/deaths.htm#COL2 ]

Thank you all for your help. I wish I could find John Jones death certificate but all the details I have that he was born in St. Asaph circa 1837 and died around 20th February 1912. He was living at 16 Faraday Street Liverpool. Any suggestions please

- another method using an old address book might be to try to locate relatives' addresses through the Ancestry telephone book listings -these do cover Lancashire

I think I remember someone saying that she had manged to locate a burial in a London cemetery by ringing the archivists of likely cemeteries. If all three Ford children were born in Prescot, it might be worth trying that area too?

Thank you for all your help. Yes Ivy Roberts did marry George Ford as I have just found my dad's old address book, which was a bit of luck and sure enough George Ford is in it.
I think I have walked every cemetery in Everton, including Welsh Presb. church to no avail. I will just have to keep trying.
Thank you all again

PS It seems that Elwy's birth was possibly registered as Edith E Roberts, which would make her marriage as difficult to trace as any possible remarriage of her mother.

I see that the 1901 census shows Ivy as
Ivy Helen Roberts
living with her parents at 79 Molyneux Road in the Liverpool St Philips in the West Derby district.

Lancs BMD has only one marriage for Ivy H Roberts between 1911 and 1930, to George W Ford (but the indexing might not be complete, and this may be some other Ivy H Roberts).

Checking for other Ivy H Roberts born between 1887 and 1907, there are only two others with births registered in England and Wales:

Ivy Hainsworth Roberts born in Dewsbury and
Ivy Hilda Roberts born in Middlesex.

There seems a good chance that this marriage might be that of your relative.

There are three children's births registered as Ford with mother's maiden name Roberts in Lancashire between 1924 and 1934, all in Prescot (plus two others further north), but unfortunately I cannot see a reasonable match in other people's trees on this site to any of these three children.

It might be worth getting this marriage certificate, to check if Ivy's father's name is Albert, what her address was when she married (at the Liverpool Presbyterian church, Breeze Hill Liverpool) and who the witnesses to the marriage are.

I see from Googling that there was a Welsh Presbyterian church at Everton Brow which opened in 1869 and was still standing when it was damaged by bombing in WW2.

Start by purchasing John's death cert, to find out if Ann(e) registered it. If she did, it reduces further the time-scale for your search, although there is, of course, no guarantee that she died in the area in which she lived in 1911.

The following are suggestions only for the W Derby district.........based on the assumption that she didn't have a second name about which you have not informed us

Ann Jones abt 1839 Apr-May-Jun 1931 West Derby Lancashire
View Record

Ann Jones abt 1841 Apr-May-Jun 1928 West Derby Lancashire
View Record

Annie Jones abt 1841 Oct-Nov-Dec 1920 West Derby Lancashire

You could have found these on freebmd

There are a few angles you can try. Electoral rolls are a god place to start after the 1911 census, but I see that after John died, the family are entirely female (i.e. no voters registered).

Any of the females could have married - the grandchildren, her widowed daughter Edith (who is only 36), or Ann, who is only 52. However, there are three possibilities for a marriage for Edith Roberts in Liverpool in 1911 and 1912 alone. Elwy is a better bet to follow; there are just three marriages shown on FreeBMD, and two of these could perhaps be eliminated if she did or didn't have a middle name:

Marriages Jun 1923
Roberts Elwy G Foulkes Oswestry

Marriages Sep 1929
Roberts Elwy Roberts Conway

Marriages Sep 1930
Roberts Elwy C Magson Birkenhead

Identifying likely descendants and then cross-checking with other members' trees on this site and other sites and/or buying certificates for address details and checking electoral rolls (in local libraries/archives) are some of the options available - although it may be a long search...

Use freebmd.org.uk to look for deaths.
Start in West Derby, I don't see one there to precisely fit as Anne, try other spellings. Unfortunately the age given to the registrar would only be as accurate as the person registering the death knew and she may have moved following her husbands death.

I don't know who registered her husband's death. All I have is a letter which was written on 21.02.12 just addressed to My dear friend saying he was sorry to read of the death in today's paper and sorry he would not be at the funeral the next day and to convey his condolences to the family. John Jones was a Sunday school teacher for many years at Everton Brow.

Thank you again. The children they had were as follows
Edward 1864, Margaret 1865, Sarah 1868, Martha 1871, Eleanor 1873, Edward 1874, Edith 1875, John, 1879, Alice 1880, Loisa 1881. Can't find the other two. Her husband was a warehouseman

Look for deaths after 1911 in West Derby

Who registered her husband's death?

1911 census transcription details for: 16 Faraday St Everton Liverpool

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN22518 RG78PN1325 RD455 SD8 ED5 SN89


Reg. District: West Derby Sub District: South Everton
Parish: Everton Enum. District: 5
Address: 16 Faraday St Everton Liverpool
County: Lancashire

Name Relation Condition/Yrs married Sex Age BirthYear Occupation Where Born
JONES, John Head Married M 74 1837 Retired Warehouseman Denbigshire St Asaph
JONES, Ann Wife Married52 years F 70 1841 Denbigshire Oswestry
LLOYD, Florence Granddaughter F 13 1898 School Lanc Liverpool
ROBERTS, Edith Daughter Widow F 36 1875 Dresmaker Lanc Liverpool
ROBERTS, Ivy Granddaughter F 14 1897 Typist Lanc Liverpool
ROBERTS, Elwy Granddaughter F 9 1902 School Lanc Liverpool

Thank you for replying so quickly. I last found her on the 1911 census when she and her husband were living at 16 Faraday Street, Everton. Her husband died in 1912 but I don't know where he is buried. They had 12 children, 10 of whom were still alive according to the 1911 census

Do you have them on any census?

When and where was he born?

Did they have any children, do you know names, year of birth for them?

What was his occupation?

When and where was she last known to be alive?

With such common names, we need all possible info

BUT..............have you tried looking yourself on freebmd/?

That's where anyone else would look

I am trying to find the place and date of death of the above. She was born in 1841 in Oswestry and married my great grandfather John Jones on 5th October 1863 in Everton, Lancs.