Find Ancestors

Hi everyone, this is a strange one.

JOHN GILCHRIST born Hull Yorkshire 1885.......1891 is described as grandson of John GILCHRIST (my great grandfather) and mary Ann nee Young.......

"Grandson" being presumably the child of a child of John and Mary....there is no sign of the birth of Henry, thus no parents.

The obvious conclusion being that Henry was the illegitimate son of a daughter (or son) of John....only two qualify by age..MARY E and ARTHUR...

1901 henry is in the liverpool Sheltering home for destitute children..then he disappears.....

Have googled "Liverpool Sheltering Home" and it seems that hundreds of these unfortunate children were sent to Canada to work on farms etc....(which process could open up a whole can of worms!!)

All i need, kind folks is someone (Sylvia where are you??lol)..to look at Canada passenger lists from Liverpool between 1901 and 1911..to see if was sent to Canada.

Please don't send me reams of "For information" of copy and pasted census returns..I have them all..

Many thanks in anticipation.

Derek.

if he went to Canada as a Home Child then you can look for him on :-

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~britishhomechildren/

Derek - the reams of census info is not usually for your benefit. It's background for us to work from.

Will go and check shipping lists.....

EDIT: On second thoughts, was there an upper age limit on Home Children being sent away?

Could you also clarify if he is John or Henry? - you use both in your opening post.

EDIT 2: Have looked at that 1891 census (and resisted the urge to post it!) it appears we're meant to be looking for HENRY Gilchrist - that is the name of John's grandson.

Hi Shirley..many thanks for that.what a great Archive..but he does not appear to be on it..but i've found another relative who is!!

Marie.I take your point..but haven't you received such lists, often totally unrelated to the enquiry...but if we're still friends lol..please look. Thank you.

Derek.

Derek - of course we're friends!! I do know what you mean, but you must know what I mean too when we're trying to get the bigger picture. :-)

Anyhow, now I know what the right name is I'll go and take another look!!

A possible, arrived in Canada 1908:

1911 Census of Canada

Name: Henry Gilchrist
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Age: 26
Birth Date: Feb 1885
Birthplace: England
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse's Name: Ethel Gilchrist
Tribal: English
Province: Ontario
District: Hastings West
District Number: 80
Sub-District: Belleville
Sub-District Number: 30
Place of Habitation: Muncey St

Household Members: Name Age
Henry Gilchrist 26
Ethel Gilchrist 26
Florence Gilchrist 2

This looks like him:

Surname: GILCHRISTGiven Name: Henry
Age: 17
Sex: M
Ship: Vancouver
Year of Arrival: 1901
Departure Port:
Date: 1901-10-
Port: Portland
Arrival Date: 1901-11-10
Party: Liverpool Sheltering Home, Mrs. Birt
Destination: Knowlton, Quebec
Comments: A small group of children to Mrs. Birt in Knowlton, Quebec with Mrs. Freeman in charge.
Source: Family History LibraryReference: Family History Library, microfilm #1449401. Original records held at National Archives and Records Administration (NARA)Type of Record: Records of other organizations

Other "Children" travelling in the group:

Surname Given Name Age Sex Ship Year of Arrival
1. TAYLOR Adelaide 21 F Vancouver 1901
2. TUOYE Florence 11 F Vancouver 1901
3. MORELL Frederick A 14 M Vancouver 1901
4. WILSON Gertrude 21 F Vancouver 1901
5. GILCHRIST Henry 17 M Vancouver 1901

This is from the Canadian Archives:

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/index-e.html

Enter Home Children in the Search box.

Wow...Marie and Potty..that is brilliant..Knowlton Quebec was the place they were sent to before being "farmed out" literally.....The Website that Shirley gave me a link to is very revealing..about motives etc!!..not nice...

You can send me reams of anything you like marie!!

don't suppose you've got the marriage to Ethel..??? I ma aware of the Canadian 100 year embargo........

But many many thanks for all your help.

Derek.

Some prompts which come up.

Henry Nicholson Gilchrist
Birth: Jul 1884 - Sculcoates, Yorkshire - East Riding
=================================
Ontario, Canada, Deaths, 1869-1938 and Deaths Overseas, 1939-1947
about Henry Nicholson Gilchrist Name: Henry Nicholson Gilchrist
Death Date: 31 Dec 1935
Death County or District: York
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Birth Location: England
Father: Henry Gilchrist
Mother: Sarah Jane Solson
===============================
Ontario, Canada Marriages, 1801-1928
about Henry Nicholson Nicholson Gilchrist Name: Henry Nicholson Nicholson Gilchrist
Birth Place: Hull Eng <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Father Name: Henry Gilchrist
Mother Name: Sarah J Nicholson Gilchrist
Spouse Name: Sarah Luella Cutway
Spouse's Age: 24
Spouse Birth Place: Trosktown
Spouse Father Name: Amos Cutway
Spouse Mother Name: Annie May Wiley Cutway
Marriage Date: 7 Jun 1916
Marriage County or District: Leeds
==============================
marriage 1884 Jun qtr
Tolson Sarah Jane Sculcoates 9d 242
Gilchrist Henry Sculcoates 9d 242
==============================
1881 Same family as 1891 in your first post.
Henry Gilchrist John,
Mary A. abt 1863 Hull, Yorkshire, England Son Drypool, Yorkshire
===================
However young Henry is also with his parents in 1891 but not 1901.
So is it two Henry's or was he on the 1891 twice?

Hell Thelma..........many thanks for your help....Henry son of John and Mary..did indeed marry Sarah Jane Tolson..but there son henry was only one year old in 1891..I haven't got him on my tree becasue it was Emily who was born in 1885...and she is still with mum and dad on the 1911..unmarried..in leeds......
So henry son of henry didn't go to Canada..and henry senior was a well to do man with servants...so why abandon a child???

Another complication is that the nicholsons are in my family....but married to herny seniors sister mary E........so my rvised thinking might be that Henry 1885 who was "deported to Canada MIGHT have been an illegitimate child of Mary's before she married John Nicholson?

But why would he be with his grandparents in 1901..and then slung off into a home by 1911.....

the Canada information is great.....but why include both Tolson and nicholsons?? very confusing......but what grreat fun!! thank you again.

Derek.

The one with grandparents says born 1885 and the one with Henry and Sarah J 1890.
1911 Henry and Sarah Jane had 8 children 5 died.
with them in leeds are Mary Hannah 1885 and Emily 1889.


Was Sarah Jane Tolson or Nicholson.
Was Tolson written instead of Nicholson.
I can find a Sarah Jane Nicholson but not Tolson.

Do you have her parents?

Like you say why would Henry have been sent away.

Maryb.

Mary !! you have become..with the greatest love and respect !!..a pain in the neck!!.You have led me down another avenue..and your suspeicions are brilliant!!

Henry Gilchrist DID marry Sarah j Tolson rd quarter 1884
Martha ( not mary) married John W Nicholson 4th quarter 1890....(Henry born 1891)...........all of which i knew...

What I DIDN'T know was that SARAH J TOLSON born 1867..who married Henry in 1884..was on the 1881 Census what looks like the Grand daughter of one henry and hannah NICHOLSON!!!

It's become very complicated and explains the canadian records...Oh Joy!!

So if Henry 1885..was the son of henry and sarah married 1884....what happened???

I love it!!

Thanks again

EDIT..Sarah J Tolsons parents were Mark Tolson from Darlington and Elizabeth from Hull...........I bet she was a Nicholson!!

Just my take on the situation.
Did Henry Nicholson Gilchrist have his birth cert. naming his parents?
Was Sarah Jane Tolson pregnant with another man's child when she married Henry Gilchrist? That would explain why he was given up.

1881
I think it states adopted daughter.
Henry Nicholson 61
Hannah Nicholson 53
Sarah J. Tolson 14

Thelma...or anybody..care to take a look on the 1881 for Sarah J Tolson 1867 Hull.......and see if you can read the relationship to the Nicholson's???? could it be "adopted daughter"?
Strange to say..her siblings in 1881 are living with an Aunt called Sherwood.......parents Mark and Elizabeth have diappeared!!..and \mark's wife Elizabeth was NOT a Nicholson....

Phew!!!

It certainly looks like an abbreviation for adopted.

There is a family just above them with an adopted son and that hasn't been abbreviated.

Mark tolson 1835-1879
Elizabeth Tolson nee Thompson 1837-1873.

So maybe Henry had the middle name of Nicholson as a Mark of respect.

Sorry Derek,its not the first time I have been called a pain in the neck and sorry I led you on a wild goose chase.

It will keep you active!!

Maryb.

Dear mary!!...not wlld goose chase.i was congratulating you..and thanking you.abd putting me on the right track .it now appears that all the Tolson/Nicholson from canada is entirely accurate in that Srah j Tolson was aopted by the Nicholsons.........which bespeaks another sadness..in the break up of the Tolson \family...by 1881..because of the deaths of both parents!!...........looks like you wonderful lot have soved the problem....

Any help i can return on my derbyshire thrread..pop in for a cup of something!!

Derek.