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Hi,

I am really struggling to find some records for John White born 1826 in Windsor, Berkshire. I have found him on the 1851 to 1881 census's but can't seem to find him before then or his death (which I believe is before 1891) as he had such a common surname. I know he married Mary Ann who was born 1826 in Orpington but again I can't track down their marriage or deaths.

Has anyone got any helpful tips they can give me?

thanks
Katy

for reference purposes ...............


is this your John in 1851?


1851 Census

Name: John White
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Ann White
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Windsor, Berkshire, England

Civil parish: Bexley
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Registration district: Dartford
Sub-registration district: Bexley

John White 25 Groom
Mary Ann White 27 b.ca 1824, Orpington, Kent
Alfred White 3 b.ca 1848, Bexley, Kent
Elizabeth White 1 b.ca 1850, Bexley



sylvia

based on the fac tthta the 1851 Census shows that he is living in Kent, that Mary Ann and the children were born in Kent, I made an assumption that they married in Kent


The ONLY way to be sure of Mary Ann's surname is to buy the birth certificate for one of the children.


However, I went to familysearch.org.uk ... click on Try the updated site, and then filled in the boxes with what I knew.


This is a POSSIBLE marriage


England Marriages, 1538–1973 for John White

Groom's Name: John White
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name: Mary Ann Durham
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date: 13 Sep 1846
Marriage Place: Saint Paul,Deptford,Kent,England
Groom's Father's Name:
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name:
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status:
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status:
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00630-1
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 384881
Reference Number:




sylvia

and the children's baptisms


England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 for Alfred White

Name: Alfred White
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 21 May 1848
Baptism/Christening Place: Bexley, Kent, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: John White
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Mary Ann
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C16526-1
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1469314
Reference Number: item 1


Baptisms for the other children can be found on that site, if you want to try to find them yourself.



sylvia

This marriage is on freebmd.org.uk

Marriages Sep 1846 (>99%)

Durham Mary Ann Greenwich 5 267
White John Greenwich 5 267



Births

I noted that on the 1861, their child is called Eliza Ann ............ and then found this birth on freebmd

Dartford is the registration district that includes Bexley.

Births Jun 1850 (>99%)

White Eliza Ann Dartford 5 93


and thus this is probably Alfred's birth registraion

Births Jun 1848 (>99%)

WHITE Alfred Dartford 5 84




sylvia

As it is such a common name, I think the only thing you can do now is spend some money on buying certificates .... which will cost you £9.25 each.

Buy them ONLY from this site, as any other sites charge much more

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/


First buy one of the children's birth certificates ................... that will give you the mother's maiden name

Hopefully, that will be Mary Ann Durham

Then buy the marriage certificate I found above ......... that should give you the names of both fathers and their occupations.


If it is not Durham ..... then you will at least have her surname to look again on freebmd.




sylvia

Thanks so much for your help Sylvia really appreciate it :-D :-D :-D

I'm not having much luck on the familysearch website. Maybe I'm doing it wrong? :-(

Katy

try this

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/

click on Try the updated site

to find children of known parents:-


enter surname in box

click on Births

enter county and england

enter dates for a period longer than you think you need

eg 1845 to 1890

click on Parents

enter John and Mary Ann ..... do not use surname


Click on yes to display non secure items



Click on child's name to open the Parish Record





sylvia

thanks very much

Looking for death certificates:

- since the parentless children are living at the same address in 1881 as they were in 1871, you could search freebmd by the specific district to narrow your search
- there are not many Mary Ann White deaths registered in the Dartford district in the 1870s (Bexley is a sub-district of Dartford, as shown on the 1851 census extract that Sylvia posted above)
- the index listing gives the age at death, which helps to narrow it down
- if you have doubts about the age transcribed from the index, you can click on the spectacles link to a page that allows you to view the original index page

EDIT: having crossed checked other John Whites born in Berkshire, born in Windsor or living in Bexley, I'd incline towards a death for John White in the 1870s...

Just got Alfred's certificate through. It is the right Alfred but I can read everything but the mothers maiden name! It ends in a y I think :-(

Hi Katy, you say you have the 1851 onwards census returns - do you also have access to London marriages? There are a few John Whites marrying Mary Ann in the right sort of time frame (say 1845 before Alfred's birth in 1848) in the right sort of area (South of the river); and you could cross-check these with the neighbours on the 1851 census. My bet would be on the mother's maiden name bing Stacey... would this fit with the birth certificate?

Hi Ivy,
Thanks for your help did you find a marriage with a John White marrying a Mary Ann Stacey? We think the last three letters could be cey so that might fit!

Thanks
Katy :-)

Katy

you really should not have started the second thread ..... it's much easier if you had kept it all the ifnromation together.

From the marriage registration that Jax found and posted on your other thread (and that I have c&p'd over to here)

poss??

Marriages Dec 1847 (>99%)

>>>>STACEY Mary Ann Greenwich 5 374
>>>>WHITE John Greenwich 5 374


there is this marriage on ancestry

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Mary Ann Stacey

Name: Mary Ann Stacey
Spouse Name: John White
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 10 Nov 1847
Parish: Woolwich St Mary Magdalene
Borough: Greenwich
Father Name: Joseph Stacey
Spouse Father Name: William White
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

John

Of Full Age (ie, over 21)
Bachelor
Occupation:- Gardener
Address:- Woolwich
Father occupation:- Coachman

Mary Ann
Of Full Age
Spinster
no occupation shown
Address:- Woolwich
Father occupation:- Gardener

Witnesses:- C Sargent and xxxx Moore <<< I think!! it's very hard to read



now you have to try and see if any of the information on there fits with the information that you know.



it's still just guesswork!





sylvia

see also

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/ancestors/thread/1291035

Sorry Sylvia I merely started the other thread because I was purely asking if anyone could read the certificate.
Thanks for your help

I have deleted my other thread.
On going back through my 1851 census details which were correct it definitely fits being Stacey as the maiden name as her parents lived next door! :-)