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Thank you all for your assistance and advice, i will have to resign myself that maybe she never got married to Herbert Cooper for whatever reason.

Many thanks once again.

CW

I also looked for any marriage between any likely sounding people up to her death. Pre-birth of children anywhere.
She died in Brighton, and that was where they were in 1911, so that area mainly in later years.
Census I posted for 1881 looks like Ella, so not married then.
They did seem to travel around the country between 1881 and 1911.

patchem


Banham may have been her maiden name, and may be the name that appears on the birth certificate of the children ...............


but she could have been married before, and married Herbert under that name (and not as Banham)



Also, don't forget, some people just did not get married, even though they were both "eligible"


................ or else they get married very late in life


Having said that, I did search on freebmd from 1871 to 1931 for Herbert Cooper marrying an Ella, with no success



and we also don't know WHERE they might have got married.




sylvia

Ella in 1871
Ella Banham Age: 9 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Daughter Father's Name: John Banham
Gender: Female Where born: Litcham, Norfolk, England
Civil parish: Litcham County/Island: Norfolk Country: England
ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Household schedule number: 77 Piece: 1848 Folio: 11 Page Number: 13
John Banham 53
Ella Banham 9
William Banham 5
Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 1848; Folio: 11; Page: 13; .

Probably 1881:
Ellen Banham Age: 19 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Servant Gender: Female
Where born: Litcham, Norfolk, England
Civil parish: Downham Market County/Island: Norfolk Country: England Occupation: General Servant
Registration district: Downham Sub-registration district: Downham
ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Piece: 2004 Folio: 86 Page Number: 27
Francis Edge 65
Sabina Edge 64
James Edge 26
Sarah Edge 25
Francis Edge 2
James Bennett 20
Ellen Banham 19
Kemp Juler 14
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 2004; Folio: 86; Page: 27; GSU roll: 1341483.

They claim married 28 years in 1911.
If they never married the 28 years is just to make them look respectable.
If they did not marry each other, one or other married between 1876 and 1883, approx. spouse did not die, and they did not want to marry bigamously?
Have you got the birth certificate of any of the children to confirm Mother's maiden name? Probably not from the information you originally gave.
I think you had better get a certificate just to confirm IGI information.

just one question



does anyone think that the landlady on the 1881 Census gave the wrong information for Herbert (if that is the correct Herbert)??

ie, in saying he was single when he was in fact already married?




sylvia

Sylvia, you are quite correct and I apologise, this has been haunting me for a while and everytime I log on and start researching I end up spending hours on-line and achieve nothing.

I do appreciate all of the efforts everyone is makiing.

CW

have you also looked at freebmd.org.uk?

CW


you do realise don't you that we are all members of GR, just like you.


NO GR staff help on these boards ......... it's all volunteer work by GR members



Thus we have no magic wand .................... we have to search records on sites that we subscribe to, or know about.


Like patchem said ................... if a marriage is hard to find, then one always thinks about a) a previous marriage for the woman that means she used a different surname, or b) that they did not marry at all, for some reason.


sylvia

Patchem, You are quite right, I have tried searching on thegenealogist and findMyPast for all of the herbert coopers married between 1880 and 1884 and looked at their partners with no avail.
I have also looked at Ella Louisa Banham, Ella Banham or just banham berween 1880 and 1884 to see if any of them married a cooper, no joy there either, I am thinking that they did not get married, but i would rather be certain.

Thank for looking

CW

just one explanation of why we seem to be repeating information that you have

You have this family in "your head"

We do not, and we have to get that feeling for the family ...... and we do need basic information that you did not give us.

Thus, I and several others posted information ...... to get confirmation from you that we were indeed following the right people


Witness the fact that I found on ancestry a Herbert Montague Cooper whose birth was registered in 1882, while Jonesey found what you say is yours on freebmd!



sylvia

We are trying to pin down the family, see where the children were registered, check that they were not married before, see if she normally goes by the name Ella L, or Louisa, or something else, wonder if there was a a reason why they did not marry, look for possible differences in spellings, etc etc.
If you have looked and cannot find it, do not expect us to do so without working around the problem. so we can get a handle on it.

Christine, Yes Herbert Montague did marry Rose Margaret Simmons, but what i am trying to find out is the marriage record for Herbert Montagues parents.

Alviegal, thanks

Patchem, yes that is Ella's death record.

1881 poss for Herbert - shown as unmarried

Name: Herbert Cooper
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Springfield, Essex, England

Civil parish: Lambeth
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: No 14 Commerce Pl New Park Road
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Baker

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Brixton
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 614
Folio: 103
Page Number: 13
Household Members: Name Age
James Paddy 55
Walter Midhurst 24
Herbert Cooper 21
Louisa J. Buskwell 54
Ellen Coard 23
Ann Appleby 57

Herbert and Ella's first child, (wife's grandfather) Herbert Montague was born 13 Mar 1884 in Sydenham, which at the time was Kent.
Ella Louisa was born in Mitford in 1862
Herbert Cooper was born in Essex in 1861.

Many thanks for all of your research so far but as previously stated I have all of the Census (including 1911) records, I have birth records for both Herbert and Ella louisa and their children, but what i am lacking is their marriage record which is frustrating me good and proper.

Do you know if this is her death?
Ella L Cooper
Birth Date: abt 1863
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1940
Age at Death: 77
Registration district: Brighton
Inferred County: Sussex
Volume: 2b
Page: 907

1891 for reference

LLOYD, Caroline Head Widow F 58 1833 Dress Maker
Cheltenham
Gloucestershire VIEW
LLOYD, Florence Daughter Single F 17 1874 Domestic Servant
Cheltenham
Gloucestershire VIEW
LLOYD, Joseph Grandchild Single M 13 1878 Scholar
Cheltenham
Gloucestershire VIEW
LLOYD, Albert Grandchild Single M 8 1883 Scholar
Cheltenham
Gloucestershire VIEW
COOPER, Herbert Lodger Married M 30 1861 Baker
Essex VIEW
COOPER, Lousia Lodger Married F 29 1862 Laundress
Norfolk VIEW
COOPER, Herbert Lodger Single M 7 1884 Scholar
Sydnem VIEW
COOPER, Ella Lodger Single F 3 1888
Sydnem VIEW
HILLING, Arthur Lodger Single M 18 1873 Drayman
Birmingham VIEW
Piece:
2043 Folio:
108 Page:
13 Registration District:
Cheltenham

Civil Parish:
Cheltenham Municipal Borough:
Cheltenham Address:
32, Sherborne Street, Cheltenham County:
Gloucestershire

Did Herbert Montague marry Rose Margaret Simmons in 1915? If so the marriage cert is on Ancestry.

Jonesey ..... that fits better with the census information from Choccy!

???
Births Jun 1884
Cooper Herbert Montague Lewisham 1d 1146