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I am helping a friend to research his family and we would like to know if anyone has any info on a Philip McGuirk born in Liverpool abt 1877 in the 1901 and 1911 census he is down as a visitor at the residence of Charles Arnold and his wife Ellen we think Ellen is his sister she was born in Ireland abt 1874 that is all the info we have on her Philip is down as a Mill hand on the 1911 census and as a bread baker on the 1901 census I cannot find a birth for him we do know that her did not marry nor can we find him in any census before 1901 We know that he was still living in the 1940's
I am wondering if he had another name that we do not know of
Would be glad of any information if at all possible
Thank you
Glenys

1911 for our reference:

ARNOLD, G Charles Head Married M 45 1866 Builder Labourer Lancs West Derby
ARNOLD, Ellen Wife Married 19 years F 39 1872 County Down Ire
ARNOLD, Charles Son Single M 18 1893 Builder Labourer Lancs Kirkdale
ARNOLD, George Son M 14 1897 Lancs Kirkdale
ARNOLD, Ellen Daughter F 9 1902 Lancs Walton
ARNOLD, Philip Son M 6 1905 Lancs Kirkdale
ARNOLD, John Son M 4 1907 Lancs Kirkdale
MCGUIRK, Philip Boarder Single M 34 1877 Mill Hand Lancs Kirkdale
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Registration District: West Derby
Sub District: Walton
Enumeration District: 26
Parish: Walton on the Hill

Address: 57 Leta St Walton Liverpool County: Lancashire

I've found a possible marriage for Charles and Ellen but that has a potential maiden name of Shanks for Ellen.

Do you know for sure what her maiden name was?

I noticed on the 1901 that Ellen is stated as being from Liverpool on that return?

Yes as far as we know that was her maiden name she was born in County Down Ireland but have not had any success tracing her We have not been able to find a marriage but we think it was 1892 would have to look at records to make sure

1892 she married Charles Arnold but we do not know where I think we got this info from a census

Hi Glenys, could you just clarify that Shanks is her maiden name? If so then this is the marriage:

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1893
Arnold Charles W. Derby 8b 841
Shanks Ellen Ruth W. Derby 8b 841

So, if she was Shanks then she wouldn't have a brother called McGuirk? (Unless she's previously been married before Charles).

Closest I can find for a death for Philip:

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005

Name: Philip Mcgurk
Birth Date: abt 1873
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1958
Age at Death: 85
Registration district: Prescot
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10f
Page: 249

Ellen is down on the census as being born in County Down Ireland It was my friends sister that said that McGuirk was her maiden name and that would be her grandmother

Interesting:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915

Name: Ellen Ruth Shanks
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1867
Registration district: Liverpool
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 211

Glenys - what certificates have you got by way of verification?

If Charles & Ellen Arnold are definitely your friend's family then do you have any of the children's birth certificates to confirm her maiden name. You always need proof, not hearsay!

Do you know if they had any children after 1911? Mother's maiden name will show on those records.

I am wondering if that is the death for Philip my friend could have lost contact I know that he does not know when he died do you know where this Philip was born?

I am wondering if that is the death for Philip my friend could have lost contact I know that he does not know when he died do you know where this Philip was born?

Glenys, sorry but the death record doesn't give the place of birth (at least not English ones).

If you bought a copy of the certificate it would give you some further info, but not that.

Is it the McGuirk line that you're really trying to trace? If so then we need to work back from some known facts.

My friends father was their son I will ask him if he has his birth certificate if not we can always get one
Thanks Marie

Yes Marie it is the Mcguirk family that we are trying to trace but we have not had much luck have contacted relations from Ancestry,co.uk and from Genes and they dont have the info it seems we are at a dead end that is why I thought I would post on here which I dont do very often

????????

Name: Ellen McGuirk
Date of Registration: 1871
Registration district: Gortin
Birth Country: Ireland
Volume: 2
Page: 146
FHL Film Number: 101048

A lot of the records in Ireland werer lost in a fire at the records office so they have been lost Have tried every site I could think of to get the info but no luck

HI Marie
I think the last child Charles and Ellen had was born in 1907 I dont have any more children on their site I must have a look at some of the birth cetificates that I have about the mothers maiden name

Marie
My mother birth certt has her mothers maiden name on it but she was born in 1911

Hi Marie
The birth cert do have the mothers maiden name on just checked my grandfathers birth cert so you were right he was born in 1866