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I had not had chance to follow this up before, but received the birth certificate for Ivy May King today. Lynn from up North was right! I have found Cissy - thank you very much. Date of birth 15 May 1903. Her mother was Fanny King, a housemaid and name of father is blank. Fanny married John Johnson in October 1903 so he may or may not have been her father.

Her grandparents both died in 1913, so she may have been 10 years old by the time she went to live with Fanny and John. My father-in-law was born in 1912, so he wouldn't have remembered her not being there. She may well have harboured some resentment towards her mother for "parking" her with the grandparents and maybe that was why she was reluctant to take on the care for her in old age.

I am extremely grateful for all the help on this. All I have to do now is find her marriage! There is no obvious contender so far........

You have all been busy! Sorry for the delay in replying.

Frederick King and Elizabeth were the parents of Fanny King. I am OK with the Kings (they go back to the early 1500s in Harwell!)

John Johnson did come from Bishopstone, but there was more than one Johnson family there and his father was Stephen.

An interesting theory about Ivy May - I shall have to investigate that one further. Frederick King was one of eleven children though so she could be a child of one of those - my grandchildren go home tomorrow so I will have a bit more time to research that one! The family split came in later years , when Fanny was elderly and needed looking after.

If Ivy May doesn't turn out to be a possibility I think I am stumped - I certainly can't afford certificates for every female Johnson born in the possible time period.

I haven't managed to find wills for any of the Johnsons or latter-day Kings - I think they possibly left only debts!

I am most grateful for all your help and input - I find I get tunnel vision after a while and it's always good to get a different perspective. I will keep looking and let you know if I come up with anything else.

In response to Gwen's posting with regards to John Johnson and Military records, this is the 1881 census showing John Johnson with his parents Frederick and Mary and siblings, one of which is called Frederick. So, I think what I'm trying to say is that the record Gwen found may be the correct one !!

1881 census:

Name: John Johnson
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Fredrick Johnson
Mother's Name: Mary Johnson
Gender: Male
Where born: Bishopstone, Wiltshire, England

Civil parish: Bishopstone
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England

Street Address: College
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Highworth
Sub-registration district: Swindon
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2016
Folio: 16
Page Number: 23
Household Members: Name Age
Fredrick Johnson 39
Mary Johnson 38
Fredrick H. Johnson 12
Fanny Johnson 10
James Johnson 5
John Johnson 3
Rose E. Johnson 1

EDIT
The Military record shows two brothers Frederick and James

have you found a will for one of her parents? Sh e could be named there under her true name if so.

I agree Cissy could be anything. I had a great Aunt I knew as Auntie Cis but many years later discovered her real name was nothing remotely like it.

I looked on Ancestry military records in the hope that John served in World War 1 and his children might be named on his docs.....but no luck.

There is a record for a John JOHNSON b.Bishopstone, but the dates are a little out.
His father is shown as Frederick JOHNSON, Idstone, Shrivenham, Berkshire.
John is shown to have an elder brother Frederick James ( address not known )

Gwyn

Ivy May's birth

BMD Search result details
Civil Registration event: Birth


Name: KING, Ivy May
Registration District: Easthampstead
County: Berkshire
Year of Registration: 1903
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Volume No: 2C
Page No: 430

1911 census showing Frederick King, wife Elizabeth and grandaughter Ivy May King born 1904:

KING, Frederick Head Married M 70 1841 General Labourer Harwell Berks
KING, Elizabeth Wife Married 47 years F 65 1846 Windsor Berks
KING, Ivy May Grandchild F 7 1904 Winkfield Berks
HARRIS, John Boarder Married M 55 1856 Bricklayer Labourer North Cerney Glos
ROBERTS, Arthur Married M 59 1852 Bricklayer Labourer Caprice Bedfordshire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
6674 Reference:
RG14PN6674 RG78PN331 RD124 SD1 ED8 SN76

Registration District:
Easthampstead Sub District:
Bracknell Enumeration District:
8 Parish:
Winkfield

Address:
Lovel Hill Road Winkfield Windsor County:
Berkshire

It's only a thought ....... but if this is correct then Ivy May would have been a half sister to the Johnson children and may have been called Cissy / Cissie and this may have been the reason that she became estranged from the family !!!!!!

Just a thought .......... 'Cissy' may have been born before her mother married and therefore her surname may be KING !!!!!

Another name for Cissy is Elizabeth !!!!

1901 census, showing Fanny King with her parents - Fanny aged 16 - a few years before she married !!

Name: Fanny King
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Frederick King
Mother's Name: Elizabeth King
Gender: Female
Where born: Winkfield, Berkshire, England

Civil parish: Winkfield
Ecclesiastical parish: Cranbourne St Peter
Town: Cranborne
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Easthampstead
Sub-registration district: Bracknell
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 122
Piece: 1163
Folio: 38
Page Number: 21
Household Members: Name Age
Frederick King 59
Elizabeth King 56
Fanny King 16

Cissy is short for a lot of names ending in "ces" eg Frances

was she named after her mother Fanny which can be short for Frances?

Yes you're right. My husband said that Marie was the youngest, but I have to say his information has not been all that reliable ( Grandmother's name? - Grannie!). I shall have another look and extend the dates -thank you.

Grandson's bedtime - will have to be tomorrow now!

It might be worth adding that Constance is also a possible for a variation on Cissy.

T x

If the mother, Fanny, was aged 27 in 1911 Cissie's birth could have been after 1921.

Tell me about it! I knew it was going to be difficult, but I had thought I would at least be OK with the birth. My husband thinks her husband worked somewhere on the Great West Road in the Brentford area so I thought that might help narrow it down a bit if I knew her full name.

I even searched with just the Johnson surname and looked at all the birth records, but still nothing looked likely - it occurred to me that it might even have been Sissy - short for sister - and the name could have been anything!

According to the 1911, Henry John was the only child born at that time.

Trouble with a name like Johnson (and I have them in my tree!) is there's so many of them. There are loads of marriages for Cissy/Cissie Johnsons without the Celia, etc permutations. If there was a feud she may have married anywhere in the country (or even the world).

Sorry Perchino, I should have said - I did look under Cissy/Cissie as well.

Hi,

Yes that's the right family. I have sort of assumed that she was probably born after the 1911 - unlikely to have been away without her mother? My father-in-law was Thomas A, born in 1912 and Marie was the youngest (1915 I think, with looking her up again).

Ciss, Cissy and Cissie are names in their own right.

Hi MarieCeleste,

No I don't - that's part of what we want to find out. We know she did marry, but don't know his name or when. I thought if I could find a record of her birth, at least I would know her full name and age.

1911 for our reference:

JOHNSON, John Head Married M 34 1877 Farm Labourer Bishopstone Wilts
JOHNSON, Fanny Elizabeth Wife Married 6 years F 27 1884 Winkfield Berks
JOHNSON, Henry John Son M 4 1907 Winkfield Berks

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Registration District: Easthampstead
Sub District: Bracknell
Enumeration District: 8
Parish: Winkfield

Address: Lovell Hill Road County: Berkshire

Christine, do you know who she married, and when?

If we can find her death record, and it was after 1969, it may have her full date of birth (if known by registrant).