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My apologies, Chrissie, I didn't notice your post. I was going to delete mine but noticed that mgnv has referred to it so will leave it.

Margee I don't understand, I already posted that home child record ( more legibly ) and also I copied the information from the 1911 census with the Strong family, and also the WWI attestation showing Mr Strong as next of kin ... and gave the Canadian Expeditionary Forces WWI link ... and the automatedgenealogy link ...

however EssexRose note that this is only a possibility, there are strong resemblances but at this point there is no obvious way to verify it

You can look up Margee's hit at:
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/index.jsp
and click on split view and save the image, if you want.

Sutton village is in the eastern townships, S of Granby and maybe 10km from US border. Knowlton (now Lac Brome) is maybe 30km to NE of Sutton village.

If he was a home child could this be him?

Home Children (1869-1930)
Item Display
Return to results | Search | Search HelpSurname: COOPERGiven Name: JohnAge: 13Sex: MShip: CorsicanYear of Arrival: 1910Departure Port: LiverpoolDeparture Date: 1910-02-18Arrival Port: HalifaxArrival Date: 1910-02-27Destination: Knowlton, QuebecSource: Library and Archives CanadaReference: RG 76 C1bMicrofilm: T-4735Type of Record: Passenger ListsGroup of Children Traveling Together

Then on the 1911 Canadian census he's a chore boy aged 14, living with the Strong family in Brome, Quebec. It says he was born England and emigrated 1909.

Now i would just like to thank you for all this investigation and it looks like the last summary is our John Victor Cooper,and he was a child who was born over here and was one of the children who was taken to Canada, the 1897 birth looks like this child rightly spotted, and i think i will stick with this as it seems to be the positive answer.
My special thanks to;
Margee, Chrissiex, and MarieCeleste, Thanks for all your splendid investigation from Essex Rose.

assuming Angela knows her birthday I think the 4th quarter 1940 birth with the right parents' names is the right choice :-)

they may have been in Uxbridge temporarily possibly having to do with the war, it isn't a very long haul

Could it be that Angela was born to Doris before she married John Victor?
There's this one but mother's maiden name is Humphreys. Just gets more complicated!

Births Jun 1938 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Richardson Angela M A Humphreys Islington 1b 405

had Doris been married before ? there is no Angela Cooper with mother Richardson registered in Hammersmith in late 1940 or early 1941

1935 is the closest birth in Hammersmith, does Angela have her own birth certificate ? I think she must be the one registered in Uxbridge in late 1940




by the way in the 1901 Canada census there is no John Cooper with father John Cooper to fit

http://www.automatedgenealogy.com

free access to 1901 and 1911 Canada censuses but because of mistranscriptions and a bad search function sometimes things can't be found, maybe someone else will check the censuses at Ancestry

in 1911, okay I have wondered about a home child

there is a John Cooper in Charlottenburg Glengarry Ontario whose census entry says 'home boy' but it is scratched out ( because it was under the 'place of habitation' column ), he is with Andrew and Catherine Fraser and called lodger, his birth is messy and looks like Dec 1896, he is 14 years old, place of birth says Ontario but a home child would not be born in Ontario

there are 13 John Coopers ( without different middle names or initials ) in the home children database of course

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/home-children/001015-100.01-e.php

some children did go to Quebec and this John Cooper did

Surname: COOPER
Given Name: John
Age: 13
Sex: M
Ship: Corsican
Year of Arrival: 1910
Departure Port: Liverpool
Departure Date: 1910-02-18
Arrival Port: Halifax
Arrival Date: 1910-02-27
Destination: Knowlton, Quebec
Source: Library and Archives Canada
Reference: RG 76 C1b
Microfilm: T-4735
Type of Record: Passenger Lists
Group of Children Traveling Together


http://townshipsheritage.com/article/home-children

100,000 of these children came to Canada, an enormous number when you consider the population of Canada at that time [only 3.6 million in 1870]. Of that number, nearly 7000 came to the Eastern Townships, where there were two receiving homes. The Gibbs Home in Sherbrooke took in 2064 children between 1886 and 1939, while the Knowlton Distributing Home took in 4858 boys and girls between 1872 and 1912.


I think this is that John the home child in 1911

Strong James M Head M Nov 1860 51 1901 ... farmer
Strong Miranda F Wife M Apr 1858 53 1901
Kerwood Robert M hired man S Mar 1894 17 1901
Cooper John M S Dec 1897 14

born in England immigrated 1909


for WWI attestations here is the search page

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-100.01-e.php

here is his WWI attestation paper ( image )

http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gat1/056051a.gif

gives next of kin as James Baron Strong, Vernon Quebec
date of birth December 1896
born in Leeds Yorkshire England


the thing is that if your John was Canadian we would expect to find him in a census and in WWI records ( there was conscription, he could have been exempted if he was a farm worker I think, but a large proportion of men enrolled )

this John fits the age roughly and the place in Canada ... worth considering ...


there is no John Cooper birth in Leeds in 1896-7, only 2nd quarter 1895

and the bad luck is he could be this one in 1901

Name: John Cooper
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1898
Relation: Patient
Gender: Male
Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Leeds
Town: Leeds
County/Island: Yorkshire
Registration district: Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: Leeds Union Infirmary

John Victor Cooper died in Hammersmith London his daughter Angela was born Nov 1940 Hammersmith London

Essex Rose you are new to this ... can you just give us all the facts you have ?

Angela was two when he died but we don't know Angela ... when did he die ? and where ?

was Angela born in 1940 in Uxbridge ?

If this is the death of John Victor I can't find the birth of his daughter 2 years earlier.

Deaths Dec 1942 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cooper John V 44 Hammersmith 1a 207

His marriage?

Marriages Dec 1939 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cooper John V Richardson Hammersmith 1a 810
Richardson Doris L Cooper Hammersmith 1a 810

'John Laurence Faux Cooper' ... 'faux' is French for false or fake

what an odd thing to be in a name ...

but the thing is that the marriage certificate doesn't give a location for his father is that right ?

( if he was from Quebec he might have just said Montreal because nobody in England would know what a small place with a French name was )


edit well it isn't that unheard of in a name, and for example there is

Name: George William Faux Cooper
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1838
Registration district: King's Lynn
Inferred County: Norfolk
Volume: 13
Page: 163

Ok first of all folks thanks for all your help,and it is nice to know that you like to help,as i said much appreciated. John Victor Cooper, was married in 1939 to Doris Richardson,his occupation was a Chef,and his father was a farmer called John Laurence Faux Cooper a farmer, John Victor Cooper was a Canadian,so i believe,and he was born about 1898, Quebec Montreal. Maybe it is too much to locate but i do thank you very much for your help,the canadian data is hard to locate. i know. :-)

You're right, Marie Celeste, this is a challenge and we're not finished with it yet. I was concerned about the father being a farmer in Montreal. Well, Montreal is a big city and was then, not too many farmers!

Have sent a pm to Rose to come back and answer about marriage (she may have thought we're all done but we like a challenge!)

in 1911

COOPER JOHN VICTOR 1897 14 Exeter Devonshire ( a boarder )
COOPER HUGH CHRISTOPHER DUNSTON 1900 11 Exeter Devonshire

there are an assortment of people living there including

VERNON HENRY RICHARD COOPER 1866 45
VERNON JESSIE GEORGINA 1868 43

and a lot of younger ones


Births Dec 1899
Cooper Hugh Christopher D Frome 5c 404

but no birth for John Victor Cooper

I am curious about this one


ah here they are in 1901 in Frome

Sidney Cooper 39 clergy
Edith Cooper 37
Sylvia K Cooper 10
Corin H B Cooper 8
Cecilia E Cooper 7
John V Cooper 4 born Frome
Mary G Cooper 3
Hugh C D Cooper 10 Months
Emily Singleton 34
Ellen Hines 28
Frances M Morse 22
Julia C Stiles 14


Births Mar 1897 ?
Cooper Victor Frome 5c 444

possible Victor J Cooper death 1939 Surrey so that rules him out too it seems ...


and I meant to ask the same question as Marie Celeste, occupation on marriage certificate


and the big thing is does the marriage certificate actually say father is John Laurence Cooper farmer -Montreal Quebec- ?

Just a thought, Rose - what was his occupation on the marriage certificate? Does it ties in with that 1925 arrival, who was a stoker?

I have reservations about that arrival, as it appears from the country of future residence that he intended going back to Canada (I do realise that people can change their minds!).

is he very possibly just this one -returning- from overseas ?

Births Sep 1899
Cooper John Victor Hackney 1b 416

oh no drat that one died the following year


just to rule him out !


it does sound like someone has just assumed his place of birth from his passenger record which is very foolish, even if that is the right person

My Cousin Angela Cooper has the details, and Doris was my Aunt, John Victor Cooper was her father who died when she was 2 years old, she has the information from their marriage certificate,and that's all i can give you,but she has no more about him,i can appreciate how difficult it is to trace him thought it was worth a go, but thanks for all your help it's much appreciated

Hi Rose, are you sure that's the right chap?

There are a number of trees (copied from each other) on Ancestry that have him marrying Doris Louise Richardson in 1939 and then dying in 1942.

They've copied the birth year and place (1898, Quebec) but no-one has any source for this added.

I'm having trouble seeing anything for him Canada side so was wondering how accurate the birth info is, and where it came from?