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Hi John
I have been ploughing through the family search site but as yet Stow is not on there, I have found loads of the ancesters births and marriages but not our John or William, I will keep looking and send you my findings later.
Jenny

Hi John,

There's a William Chamberlain b.1860 on the 1871 census, living with his grandparents, John and Ann Chamberlain. This has been transcribed on Ancestry under the name Chamberlln.

Also, on the 1881 census, there's a William Chamberlain b.1861, living with William Steward and Maria Chamberlain. Ancestry have transcribed him as being 30 years old, so born 1851. But the original image clearly shows his age to be 20, therefore born 1861.

Hope this is helpful, but of course it isn't proof. I think you may need to see the parish baptisms for the Stow area. Unfortunately, I don't think they're online.

A good theory and one which I would like to be correct. However proof seems dificult to come by.

1. There does not appear to be a William recorded in the births register in the correct district of Downham but there is one in Kings Lynn. There is no John of course.
2. 1871 census shows a William Richard but no John - this would be good if the name and district were more precise
3. 1881 census show neither
4. 1891 census shows John and no William (This I would expect if the theory holds up)
5. There appears to be no record of a William dying between 1861 and 1881.

Any views on how to prove the theory?

Hi John,

Please bear with me on this one. Have you considered that your John Chamberlain could be the William Chamberlain b.1860 St.Peter (not St.Mary, I know) Widdenhall, Norfolk.

In 1861 he is living with his grandparents, John and Ann Chamberlain. Also living there are John and Ann's children, Maria 1831, John 1838, William 1845, Hannah 1850 and their granddaughter, Mary 1853.

I believe this granddaughter is Mary Steward Chamberlain - daughter of Maria Chamberlain (living with her) and William Steward.

Maria Chamberlain and William Steward are living together on the 1871 census.

On the 1881 William Chamberlain b.1861 is also living with them. So is probably the brother of Mary Steward Chamberlain.

Mary Steward Chamberlain later married George Green, and they had a daughter Ethel Green. Ethel Green later went on to marry James Frederick Day.

If William Chamberlain is your John Chamberlain, this would make Ethel Green and James Frederick Day cousins, and would explain why he was brought up by your John William Chamberlain.

What do you think?

The eldest son is James Frederick Day born to Emma Louisa Day on 25 May 1884 in Derby - father not declared. The address given did not and does not exist.

The 'story' is that he was given to a young couple and she was shipped off to America

He used the name John William Chamberlain until 1933 when his marriage and children's birth certificates were amended to read James Frederick Day

The Day family originated from Cheltenham and were living there in 1884..

Unfortunately this information asks more questions than there are answers and does not give any pointers to the origins of the father - John William Chamberlain

John
According to the birth certificate of the eldest son John...........who are the parents please?

Kucinta

Yes you could be right there.
I was going on the "years married" ... forgetting to take into account how much people LIED on censuses !

The birth certificates of all the children state John and Hannah to be the parents except the eldest son John. This means that the family were based in Fulham in 1886 (birth of Mary Ann - registered Sept qtr 1886 in Fulham ref: 1a 315)

I can trace in detail the family's movement after this date and can also trace the origins of Hannah Teal (born in Cheltenham)

I have hearsay evidence that the couple were in Cheltenham about 1884 and were not in Derby at the birth of their 'son' John.(i.e. he is not their son)

The fact remains that the father John William Chamberlain does not appear on any official document before the birth certificate of Mary in 1886 so who are his family?

Also, Hannah in 1901 and Annie in 1911 are both born Cheltenham....and Annie/Hannah's age is approximately the same as that given for Hannah Elizabeth Teal at the marriage in 1889.

I think I do in fact have the John and Hannah Elizabeth who married in 1889.


Census 1901:

CHAMBERLAIN, John Head Married M 40 1861 Bricklayers Labourer
St Mary Magdaline Norfolk
CHAMBERLAIN, Hannah Wife Married F 38 1863 Cheltenham
Gloucestershire
CHAMBERLAIN, John Son Single M 16 1885 Shop Assistant Grocers
Derby Derbyshire
CHAMBERLAIN, Mary A Daughter Single F 14 1887 Fulham
Middlesex
CHAMBERLAIN, Annie Daughter Single F 12 1889 Scholar Fulham
Middlesex
CHAMBERLAIN, Florance Daughter Single F 10 1891 Scholar Ealing
Middlesex
CHAMBERLAIN, Mable Daughter Single F 8 1893 Scholar Ealing
Middlesex
CHAMBERLAIN, Ernest Son Single M 5 1896 Scholar Ealing
Middlesex
CHAMBERLAIN, Albert Son Single M 3 1898 Ealing Middlesex
CHAMBERLAIN, Lesley Son Single M 1 1900 Ealing Middlesex

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Piece:
1192 Folio:
60 Page:
32 Registration District:
Brentford

Civil Parish:
Ealing Municipal Borough:
Address:
2, Glenfield Road Belle View Terrace, Ealing County:
Middlesex

Hi Mike,

I just assumed that Annie was a diminutive of Hannah (Elizabeth) as I've seem Hannah and Anna/ Annie used interchangeably before.

That and the fact that the children were born mainly in the Ealing area also seems too big a co-incidence to me .

The fact that John said several children had been born before the marriage in 1889 made me wonder if the couple had put the length of their relationship, rather than ipso facto years married.

John married Elizabeth in 1889

The 1911 posted shows married to Ann c1882


Probably this one, so wrong John Chamberlain

Marriages Jun 1883
CHAMBERLAIN John - Wellingbro' 3b 251
SMITH Annie - Wellingbro' 3b 251

1911 agrees with 1901:


CHAMBERLAIN, John Head Married M 50 1861 Bricklayer General St Mongs Mydelene Norfolk
CHAMBERLAIN, Annie Wife Married 29 years F 48 1863 Glos Cheltenham
CHAMBERLAIN, May Daughter Single F 18 1893 General Printers Labourer Midx Ealing
CHAMBERLAIN, Earney Son Single M 16 1895 Farm Labourer London Middx Ealing
CHAMBERLAIN, Albert Son M 13 1898 School Middx Ealing
CHAMBERLAIN, Leslie Son M 10 1901 School Middx Ealing
CHAMBERLAIN, Dora Daughter F 8 1903 Middx Ealing
CHAMBERLAIN, Cyril Son M 6 1905 Middx Ealing

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RG number:
RG14 Piece:
8981 Reference:
RG14PN8981 RD177 SD4 ED1 SN115

Registration District:
Leighton Buzzard Sub District:
Edledsborough Enumeration District:
1 Parish:
Eaton Bray

Address:
Bedford Square Eaton Bray Dunstable County:
Bedfordshire

The John Chamberlain born in Middleton is recorded on all further censuses and seems to have lived married and died in the area.

The 1891 census records shows my John Chamberlain as born in Stowbridge but the 1901 census shows him born in Magdalen St. Mary. These places are within 5 miles of each other!

There is no father's name on his marriage registration unfortunately

Hannah Elizabeth Teal
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Spouse Name: John William Chamberlain
Spouse Age: 28
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 25 Dec 1889
Parish: St John, Worlds End
County: Middlesex
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea
Father Name: James Teal

PM from John:

"He married Hannah Elizabeth Teal in 1889 in Ealing (they had several by then)"

I've asked him to reply on the thread.

Stowbridge is near Lynn

CHAMBERLAIN, William Head M 37 1834 Norfolk VIEW
CHAMBERLAIN, Fanny Wife F 46 1825 Norfolk VIEW
CHAMBERLAIN, Frederick Son M 13 1858 Norfolk VIEW
CHAMBERLAIN, John Son M 9 1862 Norfolk VIEW
CHAMBERLAIN, Fanny Daughter F 8 1863 Norfolk VIEW
CHAMBERLAIN, Edmund Son M 6 1865 Norfolk VIEW

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Piece:
1861 Folio:
10 Page:
11 Registration District:
Freebridge Lynn

Civil Parish:
Middleton Municipal Borough:
Address:
Sandy Lane, Middleton County:
Norfolk

Is this him? If so it says born 1862, Stanbridge, Norfolk, although I think original reads Stowbridge.

1891 England Census
about John Chamberlain Name: John Chamberlain
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Hannah Chamberlain
Gender: Male
Where born: Stanbridge, Norfolk, England

Civil parish: Ealing
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Ealing
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration district: Brentford
Sub-registration district: Brentford
ED, institution, or vessel: 25
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1031
Folio: 15
Page Number: 23
Household Members: Name Age
John Chamberlain 29
Hannah Chamberlain 21
John Chamberlain 6
Mary Ann Chamberlain 4
Annie E Chamberlain 2

There are quite a few of them. Do you have any more info about him? Who he married?

Does anyone know the origins of John Chamberlain born about 1861 around St Mary Magdalen, Norfolk. First official record is on the 1891 census living in Ealing area