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thanks everybody i will now check out all info regards martin

Thanks MarieCeleste. It may be clutching at straws a little but I am still looking at those military records and the chappie on there gives his mother as his next of kin and she is Elizabeth. He later marries.

Marriages Sep 1918
Chamberlain Grace M Gilbert Royston 3a 1683
Gilbert Joseph J Chamberlain Royston 3a 1683


Births Sep 1887 CHAMBERLAIN Grace Maud Royston 3a 464

No - this one isn't a policeman and he DOES work in a mine!

GILBERT, Joseph Head Married M 41 1870 Maniger In Mine Staffs Sedgley Parish Dudley
GILBERT, Elizabeth Wife Married F 40 1871 Looking After Home Staffs Sedgley Parish
GILBERT, Joseph John Son Single M 18 1893 Driving Horse In Mine Staffs Sedgley Parish
GILBERT, Ruth Daughter Single F 17 1894 Looking After Home Duties Staffs Sedgley Parish
GILBERT, Lily Daughter F 14 1897 Prentes Dressmaking Staffs Sedgley Parish
MERIDETH, Nelley Relative Single F 18 1893 Work On Brickyard Staffs Sedgley Parish
GILBERT, John Son M 9 1902 Student At School Staffs Sedgley Parish
GILBERT, James Son M 6 1905 Student Staffs Sedgley Parish
GILBERT, Emanuel Son M 5 1906 Student Staffs Sedgley Parish
GILBERT, Samuel Son M 4 1907 At Home Staffs Sedgley Parish
GILBERT, Enoch Son M 1 1910 At Home Staffs Sedgley Parish

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Registration District: Dudley
Sub District: Sedgley
Enumeration District: 10
Parish: Sedgley

Address: 15c Brook Street Lower Gornal Near Dudley County: Staffordshire

That family is still in Dudley in 1911 but I don't have a sub. to find Joseph John's occupation. If he is not a miner then that would eliminate him.

HOUSEHOLD GILBERT LILY F 1897 14 Dudley Staffordshire
HOUSEHOLD GILBERT ELIZABETH F 1871 40 Dudley Staffordshire
HOUSEHOLD GILBERT EMANUEL M 1906 5 Dudley Staffordshire
HOUSEHOLD GILBERT ENOCH M 1910 1 Dudley Staffordshire
HOUSEHOLD GILBERT JAMES M 1905 6 Dudley Staffordshire
HOUSEHOLD GILBERT JOHN M 1902 9 Dudley Staffordshire
HOUSEHOLD GILBERT JOSEPH M 1870 41 Dudley Staffordshire
HOUSEHOLD GILBERT JOSEPH JOHN M 1893 18 Dudley Staffordshire
HOUSEHOLD GILBERT RUTH F 1894 17 Dudley Staffordshire
HOUSEHOLD GILBERT SAMUEL M 1907 4 Dudley Staffordshire



EDIT

No not him as his military records are on Ancestry and he is a Policeman.

Looking at this from another angle. Perhaps Wilfred's father was one of these men?

Births Jun 1880 GILBERT Joseph John Dudley 6c 106
Births Mar 1893 Gilbert Joseph John Dudley 6c 88


1901 Census for the second man, who would have possibly been around the correct age?

Name: Joseph J Gilbert
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1893
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Joseph Gilbert
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Gilbert
Gender: Male
Where born: Lower Gornal, Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Sedgley
Ecclesiastical parish: Lower Gornal St James
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Dudley
Sub-registration district: Sedgley
ED, institution, or vessel: 16b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 58
Piece: 2740
Folio: 35
Page Number: 11
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Gilbert 30 <<<<<<<<<Coal Miner
Elizabeth Gilbert 29
Joseph J Gilbert 8
Ruth Gilbert 7
Lily Gilbert 4
Nellie Meredith 8

So the younger Joseph may have used his middle name John to avoid confusion with his father Joseph?

john gilbert was listed as a coal miner [hewer]

on wilfreds marriage certificate his dad was called john jack ,the entry was later amended to john [no jack].if wilfred was born leeds how come he joined somerset regiment,very confusing but the redshaw link seems probable

Hi Martin

I have actually edited on the marriage post.

I wonder if it's just the fact that Joseph preferred the name John?


What was John's occupation on Wilfred's marriage Cert?

wilfred was buried seville 1941 aged 24.i cannot find john gilbert wedding or birth .only wilfred had mum surname redshaw only redshaw i can find married joseph gilbert

Is this connected?

Armed Forces BMD details
Registration event: Death

Name: GILBERT, Wilfred J
Station: Gibraltar
Country: Gibraltar
Year: 1941
Page: 7
Age at death: 24

Record source: GRO Army Death Indices (1881 to 1955)

Perhaps he was killed in Gibraltar but taken to the cemetary in Spain?

Marriages Jun 1939 (>99%)
Gilbert Wilfred Watts Taunton 5c 732a
Gilbert Wilfred J Watts Taunton 5c 733

Hannah ????
1911
REDSHAW, Elizabeth Head Widow F 54 1857 Weaver Cloth Darron Lancs VIEW
REDSHAW, James William Son Single M 30 1881 Mechanic Turner Leeds Yorks VIEW
REDSHAW, Hannah Daughter Single F 18 1893 Weaver Cloth Leeds Yorks VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
26899 Reference:
RG14PN26899 RG78PN1545 RD499 SD3 ED29 SN317

Registration District:
Bramley Sub District:
Wortley Enumeration District:
29 Parish:
Armley and Bramley

Address:
28 Abbott Road Armley Leeds County:
Yorkshire (West riding)

I have a feeling this has been done before, unless it was another member because i remember being puzzled why he was buried in Spain, which was a neutral country in ww2



GILBERT, WILFRED JOHN
Initials: W J
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Somerset Light Infantry
Unit Text: 2nd Bn.
Age: 24
Date of Death: 21/07/1941
Service No: 5672424
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Cemetery: SEVILLE BRITISH CEMETERY


George

???

Births Jun 1893 (>99%)
Redshaw Hannah Bramley 9b 376

This birth is perhaps closer to Taunton?

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Mar 1916
Gilbert Wilfred D Childes Launceston 5c 26

Do you know where Wilfred Gilbert was born? Nothing showing for Somerset 1917 + or - 1 year.

One born Mar qtr 1916 - Kings N, Warwickshire
One born Dec qtr 1916 Lanchester, Durham
One born Sep qtr 1917 Bramley, West Riding of Yorkshire

Wilfred T Gilbert born Sep qtr 1916 Kings N, Warwickshire

Lynne

for info
Overseas BMD details

Registration event: Death
Name: GILBERT, Wilfred J
Consulate: Seville
Country: Spain
Year: 1941-1945
Volume: 35
Page: 161
Age at death: 24
Record source: GRO Consular Death Indices (1849 to 1965)

is this his birth ?????
Births Sep 1917 (>99%)
Gilbert Wilfred Redshaw Bramley 9b 310 Scan available - click to view

His parents marriage...???

Marriages Sep 1913 (>99%)
Gilbert Joseph Redshaw Bramley 9b 639
Redshaw Hannah Gilbert Bramley 9b 639

Edit: Perhaps he preferred the name John??

Is this his birth entry?
There is only one Wilfred Gilbert registered in 1917.

Births Sep 1917 (>99%)
Gilbert Wilfred Redshaw Bramley 9b 310

The district Bramley is an alternative name for Bramley and it is in the county of West Riding of Yorkshire.

looking for wilfred gilbert married margaret watts 24/06/1939 in taunton,his dad was a coal miner called john.wilfred was born 1917 died 1941 aged 24 in seville spain he was a private in the somerset light infantry