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Marie Celeste
Sorry I've been away from the boards for a few days, but thanks for the additional record details. Yes, the final two records are mine - I did already have these, thank you. I like your comment about the Duck marriage names.
Best regards
Ron

The 1871 indicates that Elizabeth jnr may have been born before they married:

CALTHOBER, Charles Head M 44 1827 Middlesex, St Giles - Carpenter
CALTHOBER, Elizabeth Wife F 34 1837 Surrey, Lambeth
RIDER, Elizabeth F 70 1801 < No details, who is she?
CALTHOBER, Elizabeth Daughter F 14 1857 Dorset, Blind (Blind is in the birthplace column)
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Registration District: Lambeth
Civil Parish: Lambeth

Address: 4 Charlotte Place, Lambeth County: London, Surrey

EDIT: Have a hunch that the Dorset, Blind might relate to Elizabeth Rider and has been put on wrong line.

A possibility for Elizabeth Sarah's parent's marriage?

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Charles John Kalthoeber < bachelor, bedstead maker
Age: Full Age
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Spouse Name: Elizabeth Penn, spinster
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 02 Aug 1858
Parish: St John the Evangelist, Lambeth
County: Surrey
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: William James Kalthoeber < Bookbinder
Spouse Father Name: William Thomas Penn < Dyer

Address for both: James Street

Witnesses: P Peters ?? and Mary Noble.

Is this your gt gran in 1881, with her fiance?

RABTHOEBER, Elizabeth Head Widow F 44 1837 Nurse (Sub Med) Lambeth Surrey
RABTHOEBER, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 24 1857 Box Maker Lambeth Surrey
BRADSHAW, James Boarder Single M 25 1856 Printer Lambeth Surrey
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Sub District: Trinity Newington

Address: 68, Henshaw St, Newington County: London, Surrey

MARRIAGE:

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Elizabeth Kalthoeber
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Spouse Name: James Bradshaw < bachelor, Printer
Spouse Age: 25
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 05 Jun 1881
Parish: All Saints, Walworth
County: Surrey
Borough: Southwark
Spouse Father Name: Benjamin Bradshaw (Deceased) - Bootmaker
Father Name: Charles (Deceased) - Carpenter

Address for both is 68 Henshaw Street.

Witnesses: Charles Moule and Mary Ann Rowe

Was it some sort of rule in the Duck family that if your name was William/Charles you had to marry someone with the names Georgina/Annie? Their son's marriage:

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: William Charles Duck < Bachelor, Upholsterer
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Spouse Name: Annie Georgeina Barton < Spinster
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 21 Dec 1901
Parish: St James, St Pancras
County: London
Borough: Camden
Father Name: William Charles Duck (Deceased) < Tin Plase Asshe......
Spouse Father: George Barton (Deceased) < Bootmaker

Address for both - 69 George Street

Witnesses: G Cook & Ellen Dickinson

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Georgina Cooper < Spinster, of 290 Upper Street
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Spouse Name: William Charles Duck < Imperial Instrument Maker, of 44 Lound ?? Street
Spouse Age: 24
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 09 Sep 1877
Parish: All Saints, Battle Bridge
County: Middlesex
Borough: Islington
Father Name: Thomas Cooper < Commercial Traveller
Spouse Father Name: Charles Duck < Cabinet Maker

Witnesses: Alphonsus Sous ?? and Martha Cooper

Mike
Think you could be right. Many thanks. Off to bed now.
Best regards
Ron

I bet this is it with the names sort of joined together.


Births Dec 1856
Cooper Georgiana - Bedminster 5c 711

I see your point - obviously the Annie Brooks reference is just a coincidence. I think I do need to buy some certificates. Many thanks to all of you for your help

Can't see a birth for Ann Georgina / Georgina Annie Cooper

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EDIT
I bet this is it with the names sort of joined together.


Births Dec 1856
Cooper Georgiana - Bedminster 5c 711

Ronald - please re-read what was posted, Annie and Georgina are likely the same person! The family seem to flip their names.

Their grandchild's baptism :

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: William George Duck
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: 04 Oct 1902
Baptism Date: 21 Dec 1902
Father's Name: William Charles Duck << upholsterer
Mother's Name: Annie Georgina Duck (gets confusing!)
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Pancras
Borough: Camden

Address: 6 Harrington Street

Think this proves my Georgina/Annie theory:

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Ada Florence Duck
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1880
Baptism Date: 4 Jul 1880
Father's Name: William Charles Duck < Surgical instrument maker
Mother's Name: Annie Duck (aka Georgina??)
Parish or Poor Law Union: Islington St Mary
Borough: Islington
Address: Luard?? Street

Well, both Marie Celeste's and Lindsey's latest input are both very interesting to me. I have previously (some time ago) posted a message about my gt grandmother Elizabeth Sarah Kalthoeber, whose birth in 1857 I have never been able to find. In one of the Censuses she is referred to as Elizabeth Brooks Kalthoeber and I guessed that this might be a maiden name of her mother, also Elizabeth. So thanks for that.
On Lindsey's post Harry is is shown as a gilder, whicn many of my other Kalthoeber ancestors were, together with being famous bookbinders.
Puzzling that both Annie and Georgina were married in the same quarter - they were probanly friends as they both originate from Bristol on the census returns above.

Son Charles is William C


Household: 1881

William C. DUCK Head M Male 26 Bath, Somerset, England Hard Metal Worker
Georginia DUCK Wife M Female 24 Bristol, Gloucester, England
William C. DUCK Son Male 2 London, Middlesex, England
Ada F. DUCK Daur Female 10 m London, Middlesex, England
Agnes DUCK Boarder U Female 21 Bath, Somerset, England Tailoress
:
Dwelling 8 Bolsover St
Census Place London, Middlesex, England



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Marriages Sep 1877 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>Cooper Georgina - Islington 1b 420
>>>>>Duck William Charles - Islington 1b 420
PRICE Frederick James Islington 1b 420
TAYLOR Sarah Islington 1b 420

1881:

DUCK, William C Head Married M 26 1855 Hard Metal Worker Bath Somerset
DUCK, Georginia Wife Married F 24 1857 Bristol Gloucestershire
DUCK, William C Son Single M 2 1879 London Middlesex
DUCK, Ada F Daughter Single F 0 1881 London Middlesex
DUCK, Agnes Boarder Single F 21 1860 Tailoress Bath Somerset
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Registration District: Marylebone
Civil Parish: St Marylebone

Address: 8, Bolsover St, St Marylebone County: London, Middlesex

Think you need the birth certs to confirm whose daughters they are

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Births Jun 1880
DUCK Ada Florence - Islington 1b 315


Births Jun 1882
Duck Lily Adelaide - Marylebone 1a 529

I think Georgina and Annie may well be the same person.

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Harry Kalthober
Name: Harry Kalthober
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1894
Baptism Date: 20 May 1894
Father's Name: Harry Kalthober > gilder
Mother's Name: Georgina Kalthober
Parish or Poor Law Union: Addlestone

17 Elm Road

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1893
Brooks Annie Pancras 1b 23
??Duck Georgina Pancras 1b 23
??Kalthoeber Harry Pancras 1b 23
Williamson James Smithson Pancras 1b 23


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Georgina Duck < Widow
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Spouse Name: Harry Kalthoeber < Bachelor - Carver & Gilder
Spouse Age: 34
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 08 Oct 1893
Parish: St Thomas, Agar Town
County: Surrey
Bride's Father: Thomas Cooper - Commercial Traveller
Spouse Father Name: William Napoleon Kalthoeber - Carver & Gilder

Witnesses: Alfred Harry, Alice & Hannah Kalthoeber and Henry William Alleoram (??)

In 1901 Ada & Lily are daughters of Annie. In 1891 they're daughters of Georgina:

DUCK, Georgina Head Widow F 32 1859 Bristol Gloucestershire
DUCK, William Son M 12 1879 Scholar Islington London
DUCK, Ada Daughter F 10 1881 Scholar Islington London
DUCK, Lily Daughter F 8 1883 Scholar Marylebone London
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Registration District: Pancras
Civil Parish: St Pancras

Address: 4, Rothwell Buildings, Grafton Mews, St Pancras, London
County: London