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Cindy, I have a sneaking suspicion that the certificate you bought is, in fact, the correct one and that at the time of his marriage he has invented a father (or possibly used his grandfather's name) to save embarrassment. It would explain why he's not with his mother in 1851 and why he's listed as her nephew in 1861. I have searched the census returns and baptismal records on Ancestry and Findmypast and there is no sign of a Henry of the correct age with a James and Elizabeth in the East End or South of the Thames.

If you happened to see Who Do You Think You Are? last night, one of Tracey Emin's forebears had lied about his father's name and occupation when he married to conceal the fact that he was of gypsey extraction. It's a pain when they tell porkies but unfortunately all too common :-P

Best wishes

Kim

Fingers crossed then Cindy :-)

I ordered several death certs for one of mine recently and Im still unsure of which one is correct :-(

Ginny

Thanks for your help ~ you can see how i've got confused and tied myself in knots!!

I have ordered the BC that you recommended I try first and I will keep going until I find the correct one.

I had already ordered the whitechapel 2 587 certificate and that shows a Henry Drury born 20/4/1847 at the workhouse in Whitechapel ~ no father but mother is Elizabeth Drury (maiden name?) ~ I don't think this is my Henry (but who knows!)

Thanks

Hi Cindy

Im affraid the answer to your question about how confident can we be about the birth dates cant be answered until you get the correct certificate and that might mean buying a couple until you hit the right one!

I wouldnt worry about his age changing on census records this is quite the norm as they either didnt know when they were born or they lied about their age!


Interestingly there is also a birth for a Henry in 1845 who's mother is listed as Elizabeth Pennyfather (b1821 Surrey, Newington), the child is illigitimate.

Checking out Elizabeth, she appears to be in and out of jail and I cant find a further connection to her and Henry so maybe she gave him up? Or maybe she has nothing to do with your Henry at all!

For info:

1861 census - household transcription
Person: DRURY, Elizabeth
Address: 5, George Street, Newington

Cost:
You will be charged 5 credits for a transcript and 5 credits for an image, unless you have purchased a subscription for this set of records.


census search results all search results redefine current search
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation
Disability Where Born Original
census
image

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DRURY, Elizabeth Head Widow F 38 1823 Needlewoman
...
Surrey VIEW
DRURY, Henry Nephew Single M 13 1848 Errand Boy
Whitechapel VIEW
POULAIN, Mary A Lodger F 46 1815 Shirt Maker
Southampton
... VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Piece:
337 Folio:
25 Page:
2 Registration District:
Newington

Civil Parish:
Newington Municipal Borough:
Address:
5, George Street, Newington County:
London, Surrey



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This looks to be the same Elizabeth in 1841:

Person: DRURY, Elizabeth
Address: Maze Court, Great, St Olave, Southwark

Cost:
You will be charged 5 credits for a transcript and 5 credits for an image, unless you have purchased a subscription for this set of records.


census search results all search results redefine current search
Name Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DRURY, Mary F 50 1791 Surrey VIEW
DRURY, Sarah F 20 1821 Surrey VIEW
DRURY, Elizabeth F 20 1821 Surrey VIEW
WEST, George M 40 1801 VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Piece:
1087 Book/Folio:
11/20 Page:
33 Registration District:
St Olave Union

Civil Parish:
St Olave Municipal Borough:
Southwark Address:
Maze Court, Great, St Olave, Southwark County:
Surrey



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cindy - I have a suspicion that Elizabeth was not, in fact, married:

Person: DRURY, Elizabeth
Address: 60, Tooley Street, Saint Olave, Southwark

Cost:
You will be charged 5 credits for a transcript and 5 credits for an image, unless you have purchased a subscription for this set of records.


census search results 1851 address search redefine current search
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation
Disability Where Born Original
census
image

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TOLHURST, Lydia Head Widow F 50 1801 Ship Chandler
Yarmouth
Norfolk VIEW
TOLHURST, Lydia Daughter Unmarried F 22 1829
St Olaves
Surrey VIEW
TOLHURST, Ellen Daughter Unmarried F 20 1831
St Olaves
Surrey VIEW
TOLHURST, John Son Unmarried M 17 1834 Ship Chandler's Servant
Southwark
Surrey VIEW
TOLHURST, Alfred Son M 7 1844 Scholar
Southwark
Surrey VIEW
DRURY, Elizabeth Servant Unmarried F 30 1821 House Servant
Blackfriars
Surrey VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Piece:
1559 Folio:
56 Page:
10 Registration District:
Saint Olave Southwark

Civil Parish:
Saint Olave Municipal Borough:
Southwark Address:
60, Tooley Street, Saint Olave, Southwark County:
Surrey



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There's this one in 1851

Person: DRURY, Henry
Address: 46, Grey Eagle Street, Christchurch, Tower Hamlets

Cost:
You will be charged 5 credits for a transcript and 5 credits for an image, unless you have purchased a subscription for this set of records.


census search results 1851 address search redefine current search
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation
Disability Where Born Original
census
image

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HAYS, Mary Head Widow F 63 1788 Laundress
Shadwell
Middlesex VIEW
DRURY, Henry Visitor M 3 1848
Spitalfields
Middlesex VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Piece:
1543 Folio:
350 Page:
19 Registration District:
Whitechapel

Civil Parish:
Christchurch Municipal Borough:
Tower Hamlets Address:
46, Grey Eagle Street, Christchurch, Tower Hamlets County:
Middlesex

Ginny

Sorry!!! for not commenting sooner ~ I have been looking into the info found to see if it is/could be correct

The marriage record you found is definately correct. The death record could also be correct. Henry's youngest child Ada was born in 1894 and I have no record of any other children after then.

Its the year dates that confuse me. 1891 Census gives his birth year as 1851, 1881 census says 1849, 1871+1861 says 1848, marriage certificate says birth year abt 1850 but possible death record would make birth year as 1846 ~ which would make the birth records you found more likely ~ how confident can we be with dates recorded?

Thanks for your help so far

Cindy

Have you no comments to make on the other information/suggestions?

Jude

The 1871 census record that I have found, that I think is Henry and his mother Elizabeth is RG10 piece 598 folio 57 page 34.

The 1861 census record that I found has him recorded as Elizabeth's nephew rather than son is RG09 piece 337 folio 25 page 2

The reason I think these are correct is because I have found the family on the 1861 census and Elizabeth is recorded as a widow and is living with Henry and Ellen and their children.

Thanks

Henrys death

Deaths Mar 1894
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drury Henry 48 Lambeth 1d 354

London, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980
about Henry Drury
Name: Henry Drury
Record Type: Burial
Estimated Death Date: abt 1894
Burial Date: 27 Jan 1894
Age: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Parish or Poor Law Union: Norwood Cemetery, Norwood Road, Lambeth
Borough: Lambeth << 3 Chapel Road, removed from Portofell House, Kingstone Hill
County: London




Possible births

Births Jun 1847
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drury Henry Whitechapel 2 _57
Drury Henry Whitechapel 2 587


Births Jun 1846
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drury Henry Luton 6 91
Drury Henry Lambeth 4 * (Id go for this one first as this is Surrey)


I think its a case of buying certificates one by one to see if you can find James as the father

No luck with baptisms as yet but I have to go out and will look again later. I wonder if this is his father in 1841 - the occupation is shown as printer:

Person: DRURY, James
Address: Wellington Street, St Mary Newington, Lambeth

Cost:
You will be charged 5 credits for a transcript and 5 credits for an image, unless you have purchased a subscription for this set of records.


census search results all search results redefine current search
Name Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BULL, Edward M 50 1791 VIEW
BULL, Sarah F 48 1793 Surrey VIEW
BULL, Marry F 19 1822 Surrey VIEW
BULL, Henry M 17 1824 Surrey VIEW
BULL, Kitty F 7 1834 Surrey VIEW
RABY, John M 24 1817 VIEW
RABY, Emma F 20 1821 VIEW
RABY, John M 4 1837 VIEW
RABY, Elizabeth F 6 1835 VIEW
DRURY, James M 28 1813 VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Piece:
1065 Book/Folio:
6/32 Page:
12 Registration District:
St Mary Newington

Civil Parish:
St Mary Newington Municipal Borough:
Lambeth Address:
Wellington Street, St Mary Newington, Lambeth County:
Surrey

What is the reference for the 1871 census?

Jude

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Henry Drury
Name: Henry Drury
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Spouse Name: Ellen Jane Stone
Spouse Age: 24
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 22 Jun 1879
Parish: St Mary, Newington
County: Surrey
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: James Drury
Spouse Father Name: Henry Stone



What about this as a possible variation of the surname?

Births Mar 1848
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DREWER Henry Whitechapel 2 637
DREWER Henry Whitechapel 2 657

I would really really like to find his birth record if possible?

I am trying to find out more details on my gr gr Grandfather Henry Drury.
I already know that he was married in June 1879 to Ellen Jane Stone and that they had seven children Henry E, Ellen J, Jessie F, Walter Leonard (1884 my gr grandfather), Charles F, Frank Alfred and Ada Lilian.

I think Henry was dead by 1894 as Ellen got remarried to Mr Bourn.

I have found Henry on the 1891 census living in Newington ~ working as a tabacco warehouseman, 1881 census living in Newington ~ working as a Tabacco packer, 1871 census living with his mum, Elizabeth in London.
On 1861 census I have found a Henry Drury aged 13 living with an Elizabeth but he is recorded as nephew not son ~ could this be him?

This is where my trail goes cold. On Henry and Ellens Marriage certificate he states father as James Drury (deceased Paper Stainer).

Henry's age is different on each census record I have found ~ Henry Drury was a popular name in London and I can find no record on the 1851 census for an approx three year old with a mother call Elizabeth and a father called James?

Can anyone help?