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Hello - don't take what's on the census re: marital status as gospel truth - it often isn't. Also, you don't know for definite that William was alive for Emily's wedding. Just because it didn't say "deceased" didn't mean he wasn't.

Hi, I know this is a difficult one, but would still appreciate if anyone could throw some light on this for me. I don't think the1851 census could be right as it shows Elizabeth as a Widow and we know her husband William was alive in 1855 for Emily's wedding.

I have just run out of ideas - any suggestions please!!

Many thanks

No suggestions on my part,MC. Just give me the beer and I'll cry into it for us all.

Maureenxx

Maureen - I've had a look at that 1841 and I'm pretty sure that the surname is Jenkins.

It's got to be the same family. What's the relationships?

I'd guess that Elizabeth Ball and family were inadvertently recorded as Jenkins in 1841 because they lived together.

Any other suggestions on the back of a beermat?

Hi Folks.

Sorry I had to leave so soon last night, but, would like to thank everyone for their help.

Thanks again

Tony

Uh oh. Just to really confuse things-is this the same family as the 1851??
1841 England Census about Esther Gookins
Name: Esther Gookins
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Gender: Female
Where born: Middlesex, England
Civil parish: St Mary Islington East
Hundred: Ossulstone (Finsbury Division)
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Islington East

Piece: 664
Book: 2
Folio: 18
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
John Gookins 45 Tin Plate worker
Elizabeth Gookins 35
Esther Gookins 12
Charles Gookins 5
Edmund Gookins 3
Frederick Gookins 2 MO
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 664; Book: 2; Civil Parish: St Mary Islington East; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: 4; Folio: 18; Page: 3; Line: 10; GSU roll: 438781.

I can't really read it well enough to guess.

This one has me stumped!

Maureen

On Esther's marriage father William's occupation is Carpenter, her address looks like 2 (or 7) Mape Street.

On Emily's we know it says William is a Bricklayer. Her address was 6 Mape Street. The other witness is John Jenkins, who is on that 1851 with Esther.

I'm sure we have the right Esther as that could well be Emily's son with George in 1871.

I'd hazard a guess that the Emma on the 1851 is actually Emily.

Was just going that route,MC!

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Esther Ball
Name: Esther Ball
Spouse Name: George Bottreill
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 26 Oct 1856
Parish: St Matthew, Bethnal Green
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: William Ball
Spouse Father Name: John Bottreill

I can't find them on the 1861 census and Esther has died by 1871.

1871 census transcription details for: Thomas St, Lambeth
RG number: RG10 Piece: 648 Folio: 11 Page: 19


Reg. District: Lambeth Sub District:
Parish: Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough: Lambeth
Address: Thomas St, Lambeth
County: London, Surrey

BOTTREILL, George Head M 40 1831 Middlesex
BOTTREILL, George Son M 13 1858 Middlesex
JENKINS, Alfred Nephew M 14 1857 Middlesex


?????
1851 England Census about Ester Ball
Name: Ester Ball
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Servant
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Islington, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Islington
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Islington East
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 160
Piece: 1501
Folio: 117
Page Number: 36
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Ball 41
Ester Ball 20
Emma Ball 18
Charles Ball 15
Frederich Ball 10
John Ball 8
Anne Ball 7
John Jachens 48
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1501; Folio: 117; Page: 36; GSU roll: 87835.

Maureen

We still have not heard where the Mary came from.
Just because 1851 shows William and Mary, with William as a bricklayer, does not mean they are the correct parents. Particularly as no children showing.

On her marriage certificate one of the witnesses is an Esther Ball:


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Emily Ball
Name: Emily Ball
Spouse Name: Alfred Jenkins
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 16 Apr 1855
Parish: St Matthew, Bethnal Green
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: William Ball <Bricklayer
Spouse Father Name: David Jenkins

Hmmm

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Emily Ball
Name: Emily Ball
Record Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 17 Aug 1826
Baptism Date: 10 Sep 1826
Father's Name: William Ball < Tailor
Mother's Name: Mary Ball
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Andrew Holborn
Borough: City of London
Address: Water Street, Bridewell Precinct

Could this record be the source of some confusion?

Hi, On the 1851 Census it shows a William Ball and spouse's name as Mary Ann Ball, but no children!

Thanks

I think that Emily is showing as born 1832 in 1871 and 1881, and in 1836 in 1861.

Is this correct couple ( this Emily was born c 1832 not 1836 though)


Household:1881

Alfred JENKINS Head M Male 47 London, Middlesex, England Paper Sorter
Emily JENKINS Wife M Female 49 London, Middlesex, England
Alfred JENKINS Son U Male 24 Islington, Middlesex, England Gen Labourer
Frances JENKINS Daur U Female 21 Islington, Middlesex, England Gen Servant
Esther JENKINS Daur U Female 13 Islington, Middlesex, England Scholar
Emma JENKINS Daur U Female 10 Islington, Middlesex, England Scholar


Dwelling 8 Albert Ter York Rd
Census Place London, Middlesex, England

Thank-you MarieCeleste, that had me confused also.

There are Emily Balls born in Islington on parish records, but not with those parents.

How do you know her mother's name was Mary?

Hi,

I have only found her as married in the 1871 & 1881 Census.
I haven't been able find her when she was single with her family.

Thanks

Could you post the censuses you found the family in?
Thanks

Hi,

It looks like I'll have to go down that route. Thought there might me a less expensive way.

Thanks

Have you looked for births and marriages here?:

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/default.asp