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Cathrine
Hi thank you for the info
Regards Pat

Vera 2010
Hi thank you for the info
regards Pat

Hi Mary
Thank you for the info in 1911 they where in India

Hi Londonbelle
children born before 1911 to John & Catherine Patterson
William Patterson born 1903 Liverpool
John Johnson Patterson born 1905 India
Regards Pat

No wonder I can't find them in 1911,were they in India by any chance,did they have Agnes 1907 in Madras India??

Maryb.

PS Got thrown off course as Pat said he was John Joseph not Johnston!!!

Maryb.

I think one next step is for you to buy some credits on SP so you can get images of John J & William & Jane's BMDs. Civil rego began 1855 in Scotland, but Scottish BMDs are more informative than English ones - check out the examples at:

http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/Content/Help/index.aspx?r=554&408

Before 1855, you're looking at old parish records, but again Scottish OPRs are more informative than English OPRs.
Each image at SP costs abt 1.40 GBP if you're real careful - same for census images. Scottish and English censuses are pretty much the same (but not exactly the same). It does cut down on search costs if you know what you're looking for, so the sort of info that Catherine got from Ancestry is useful. There is also incomlete coverage of the earlier censuses at:

http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Finally, re Johnston - it wasn't an unusual practice in the north, and even less unusual in Scotland, for the mum's Maiden Surname to appear as a kid's mid-name - in my parents and their sibs, this happened 3 times plus I've 2 other aunts who have their gran's MS as a mid name and an uncle mid-named after the family that fostered his gran.

I presume you looked up the Patterson-Hillkirk kids from 1911q3 on at

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

I imagine you knew abt the twins, but anyways, twins would always be rego'ed at the same time (no surprise there - what mum's going to schlep a mile or two to the rego office with two bairns, rego just the one, then do it all again the next week to rego t'other). As a consequence, they will have consecutive entries in the rego. 90% of time, they will be on the same page and 10% of time on adjacent pages. Patterson-Hillkirk is an unusual enough combo that I'ld discount the chances of another Patterson-Hillkirk couple rego'ing their birth at the same time as your gran's single birth, so it must be twins. Before 1911q3, the GRO index doesn't list the mum's MS, so now you need help from the census to sort out whixh Patterson's are yours.

NB - the earlier you go, the more likely you are to run into Paterson, so it sometimes helps to search for Pat*erson if a wildcard is allowed.

Marriage -

WILLIAM PATTERSON Pedigree
Male Family

Marriages:
Spouse: JANE JOHNSTON Family
Marriage:

23 NOV 1875 Irongray, Kirkcudbright, Scotland


William's parents-
Robert Paterson and Margaret Callander

Robert Paterson

Event(s): Birth:
1803 Kirkpatrick,Durham, , Kirkcudbright, Scotland

Marriages:
Spouse: Margaret Calland


1861 Scotland
Name: William Paterson
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relationship: Son
Father's name: Robert Paterson
Mother's name: Margaret Paterson
Gender: Male
Where born: Kirkpatrick Durham, Kirkcudbright
Registration Number: 862
Registration district: Corsock Bridge
Civil parish: Parton
County: Kirkcudbrightshire
Address: Private House
Occupation: Scholar

Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Paterson 59
Margaret Paterson 50
Jane Paterson 18
Mary Paterson 15
William Paterson 13
Margaret Paterson 10
Janet Middleton 2
Agness Ferguson Paterson 10 MO

William's siblings -

Jean Paterson - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 29 SEP 1839 Kirkpatrick,Durham, , Kirkcudbright, Scotland
3. Jane Paterson - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 1840 Kirkpatrick,Durham, , Kirkcudbright, Scotland
4. Mary Paterson - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 1846 Kirkpatrick,Durham, , Kirkcudbright, Scotland
5. Margaret Paterson - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 1850 Balmacellen, , Kirkcudbright, Scotland
6. Robert Paterson - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 1838 Kirkpatrick,Durham, , Kirkcudbright, Scotland
7. William Paterson - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 1848 Kirkpatrick Durham, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
8. JANNET PATERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 09 NOV 1833 Kirkpatrick Durham, Kirkcudbright, Scotland

1851 Scotland

Name: Robert Patterson
Age: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1803
Relationship: Head
Spouse's Name: Margaret Patterson
Gender: Male
Where born: Kirkpatrick Durham, Dumfries
Parish Number: 856
Civil parish: Balmaclellan
County: Kirkcudbrightshire
Address: Chapel
Occupation: Farm Servant

Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Patterson 48
Margaret Patterson 40
Robert Patterson 13
Jean Patterson 11
Mary Patterson 5
William Petterson 3
Margaret Petterson 1 MO

Robert Paterson 1803 - Father John Paterson and mother Mary Birthmeyer?

Catherine

1881 Scotland

Name: John J Paterson
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relationship: Son
Father's name: William Paterson
Mother's name: Jane Paterson
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 644/11
Registration district: Hutchesontown
Civil parish: Glasgow Hutchesontown
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 51 Naburn St (Hayburn Street)
ED: 29

William Paterson 32
Jane Paterson 26
John J Paterson 2
William Paterson 9 Mos

Catherine

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915
about John Johnston Patterson Name: John Johnston Patterson

Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1902
Registration district: Liverpool
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume Number: 8b
Page Number: 4&f5=8b">269 (click to see others on page)


William Samuel Bedson Apr-May-Jun 1902 Liverpool Lancashire
Catherine Coleman Apr-May-Jun 1902 Liverpool Lancashire
Catherine Hillkirk Apr-May-Jun 1902 Liverpool Lancashire
John Johnston Patterson Apr-May-Jun 1902 Liverpool Lancashire


Vera

1891 Kirkdale Lancs D5>2
William Patterson 1862 Scotland warehouseman
John J 1879
William 1881 Scotland
David James 1884 Liverpool
Jennie 1886 Liverpool
Janet Patterson sister 1863 Scotland.

Maryb.

Edit so going on info below this is not the right family!!!!!!!!!!

William Patterson born to John and Catherine 1903 address on baptism record 7,Blanche street ??not there 1911.

Maryb.

Oh, and what was John Joseph's occupation at marriage?

What were the names and dates of birth of children born before 1911 to john & catherine?

I'm trying to find John & Catherine in 1911 to establish his birthplace so we can then track back to William.

Was 14 Mulberry Street from the marriage certificate, because I can't find them there on any census.

He married Catherine Hillkirk in the Liverpool Register Office. Catherine was my Nan, but I don't know anything else about William e.g. how many children he had etc :-)

Patricia, where have you already looked?

Who did John Joseph marry, and where?

My Great Grandfather William Patterson was a warehouseman, and I know he was born in Glasgow. His son John Joseph Patterson got married on 13/6/1902 and was aged 23 at the time. He lived at 14 Mulberry Street, Liverpool. Can anyone help me trace him or any of his relatives? Many thanks, Pat