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Help needed, i have a Edward John Tolhurst b 1879, Thurnham, kent his mother is Mary Ann b 1860, she married an Edwin Cartwright BUT i am getting mixed up with who Edward married, maybe an Eliza Cartwright but there are at least 2 with same birth date, in 1891 census he is written as John, they lived in Bermondsey, its driving me mad can some onehelp please.

Is this the marriage:-

Name: TOLHURST, Edward John
Registration District: Camberwell
County: London
Year of Registration: 1898
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume No: 1D
Page No: 1506

There is an Eliza Ann Cartwright on the same page.

Kath. x

Not understanding this.

Edward Tolhurst 's mother Mary married Edwin Cartwright ?
Edward Tolhurst married Eliza Cartwright ??

AHHH he is down as John CARTWRIGHT not Tolhurst on the 1891
CARTWRIGHT, Edwin Head Married M 32 1859 Broom Handle Manufacturer
Bermondsey
London VIEW
CARTWRIGHT, Mary Wife Married F 31 1860
Maidstone
Kent VIEW
CARTWRIGHT, John Son M 12 1879 Scholar
Maidstone
Kent VIEW
CARTWRIGHT, George Son M 4 1887
London VIEW
CARTWRIGHT, Mary Daughter F 2 1889
London VIEW
CARTWRIGHT, Kate Daughter F 1 1890
London VIEW
CARTWRIGHT, James Brother Married M 42 1849 Broom Handle Maker
London VIEW
CARTWRIGHT, Mary Niece F 6 1885 Scholar
London VIEW
TOLHURST, Annie Sister In Law Single F 27 1864
Maidstone
Kent VIEW
BROWN, George Boarder Single M 22 1869 Broom Handle Maker
Nottingham VIEW

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RG number:
RG12 Piece:
374 Folio:
31 Page:
56

Registration District:
St Olave Southwark Sub District:
St James Bermondsey Enumeration District:
1 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St Crispins

Civil Parish:
Bermondsey Municipal Borough:
Address:
21, West Lane, Bermondsey County:

was he not John Edward ?


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Births Sep 1878
TOLHURST John Edward - Elham 2a 975

It is surprising how many people use their step-father's name most of the time but revert to their "official" name when they marry. This is possibly what he did.

Kath. x

did he join the Navy??

1911 census

TOLHURST, John Married ? 33 1878 Hollingbourne Kent VIEW

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RG number:
RG14 Piece:
34971 Reference:
RG14PN34971 RD640 SD2 ED30 SN9999

Registration District:
Sub District:
Enumeration District:
30 Parish:


Address:
County:
Royal Navy at Sea and in ports abroad

You need to get the marriage cert to confirm that he married Eliza Cartwright.


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Marriages Jun 1898 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cartwright Eliza Ann - Camberwell 1d 1506
Humphrey Elizabeth Alice - Camberwell 1d 1506
Le Brun Emile William C - Camberwell 1d 1506
TOLHURST Edward John - Camberwell 1d 1506

Yes you are right its to confusing other wise, i have two eliza cartwrights in my tree both born in 1878 so until i get a cert i cant be sure, thanks every one.

Hollingbourne and ThOrnham both came under Maidstone reg district

Theres NO Edward John Tolhurst birth but there are these ones

Name: TOLHURST, John
Registration District: Maidstone
County: Kent
Year of Registration: 1880
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Mother's Maiden Name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume No: 2A
Page No: 664


TOLHURST, John
Registration District: Hollingbourne
County: Kent
Year of Registration: 1878
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Mother's Maiden Name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume No: 2A
Page No: 671



Do you have his actual birth cert ???

No i dont have his birth cert

same John in 1901 unmarried!!
TOLHURST, John Member Of Crew Single M 23 1878 Able Seaman
Hollingbourne
Kent VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG13 Piece:
5328 Folio:
17 Page:
4

Registration District:
Royal Navy At Sea and in Ports Abroad Sub District:
Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Municipal Borough:
Address:
County:
Royal Navy at Sea and in ports abroad

I believe that that John that's at sea is Mary Ann's brother born same time, its all very confusing

But if you dont have the actual birth cert how can you know his birth name ?

Michele,

Gr state that only 1 post per surname, best to stick to it and avoid other helpers duplicating work.

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/ancestors/thread/1275002

The 1898 marriage is on Ancestry and I also put it on the other thread above.

1881 England Census
about James Cartwright Name: James Cartwright
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Martha Cartwright
Gender: Male
Where born: Newington, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Bermondsey
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 7 James Place
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Carpenter

Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: St James Bermondsey
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 566
Folio: 26
Page Number: 26
Household Members: Name Age
James Cartwright 31
Martha Cartwright 26
Martha Cartwright 9
James Cartwright 6
>>>>>>>Eliza Cartwright 2
Rose Emma Cartwright
Thomas Tupper 24 Brother in law
Margaret Tupper 26
Catherine Tupper 4
Frederick Tupper


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Eliza Ann Cartwright Name: Eliza Ann Cartwright
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Spouse Name: Edward John Tolhurst
Spouse Age: 20
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 30 May 1898
Parish: Christ Church, Camberwell
County: Surrey
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: James Cartwright >>>>>>>>>> Deceased Carpenter
Spouse Father Name: Edward John Tolhurst

Winesses; Jessie Wilkins and Jane Coleman


The other Eliza with family;

1881 England Census
about James T. Cartwright Name: James T. Cartwright
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Eliza Cartwright
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Bermondsey
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 23 Cherry Garden St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Timber Dealer

Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: St James Bermondsey
ED, institution, or vessel: 1a
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 564
Folio: 31
Page Number: 56
Household Members: Name Age
James T. Cartwright 60
Eliza Cartwright 35
Alfred Cartwright 13
William Cartwright 11
Ada Cartwright 9
Harry Cartwright 6
>>>>>>>Eliza Cartwright 3
Walter Cartwright 1


Her sisters marriage;

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Ada Cartwright Name: Ada Cartwright
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Spouse Name: George Bull
Spouse Age: 35
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 14 Nov 1895
Parish: All Saints, Rotherhithe
County: Surrey
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: James Thomson Cartwright >> deceased Carpenter BUT middle name is THORNTON on image!!
Spouse Father Name: William Bull

And Alfreds marriage;

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Alfred William Cartwright Name: Alfred William Cartwright
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Spouse Name: Charlotte Matilda Bella Snell
Spouse Age: 20
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 25 Dec 1897
Parish: St James, Bermondsey
County: Surrey
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: James Thornton Cartwright
Spouse Father Name: George William Snell

AND now the 2nd Eliza's marriage;

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Eliza Annie Cartwright Name: Eliza Annie Cartwright
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Spouse Name: William Charles Major
Spouse Age: 23
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 15 Mar 1898
Parish: All Saints, Rotherhithe
County: Surrey
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: James Thornton Cartwright >> deceased carpenter.
Spouse Father Name: Frederick George Major



So the first 1881 census for Eliza Cartwright seems to be the correct one with her parents being James and Martha.

Now this is the 2nd James we looked at James Thornton Cartwright, and I think he was Eliza Anns grandfather;

1861 England Census
about James T Cartwright Name: James T Cartwright
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Anne Cartwright
Gender: Male
Where born: London, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Newington St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: Walworth St Peter
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Newington
Sub-registration district: St Peter Walworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 45
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 115
Piece: 343
Folio: 4
Page Number: 18
Household Members: Name Age
James T Cartwright 40
Anne Cartwright 44
Daniel Cartwright 16
James Cartwright 11 born Lambeth, Surrey, England
Mary Ann Cartwright 7
Edwin Cartwright 3


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about James William Cartwright Name: James William Cartwright
Age: Full Age
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Spouse Name: Martha Tupper
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 16 Jul 1871
Parish: St George the Martyr
County: Surrey
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: James Thornton Cartwright
Spouse Father Name: Robert Tupper


And Mary Ann Tolhursts marriage;

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Edwin Cartwright Name: Edwin Cartwright
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Spouse Name: Mary Ann Tolhurst
Spouse Age: 22
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 27 Nov 1881
Parish: St Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey
County: Surrey
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: James Thornton Cartwright
Spouse Father Name: Moses Tolhurst


So Edward John Tolhursts stepfather Edwin was Eliza Ann Cartwrights UNCLE!!..... So in theory E J Tolhurst married his step cousin E A Cartwright.

Hi BM'sD.
I too had a look at this family with an interest in Alfred William Woodhead Cartwright. Jas Thornton fathered two families with two women. The census returns and registers show that he did not marry the mother of his second family until 3Q 1881. This is a paste from some ofthe notes I took:

This Cartwright family in the censuses:

1851 James 30
Anne (née Millson) 32
Daniel 7; Mary Anne 5; Henry F 3; James W 1

1861 James T 40
Anne 44 (aged two tears more than James?)
Daniel 16; James 11; Mary Anne 7 (first MA must have died?); Edwin 3.

1865 Anne died

1871 James 50
Edwin B 14
Eliza (Mother!) 25
Alfred son 3 (Alfred Woodhead William Cartwright)
William son 9mo
James son 21

1881 April 3rd
James 60
Eliza
Alfred 13
William 11
Ada 9
Harry 6
Eliza 3
Walter 1

James married Eliza in the third quarter of 1881. James died in 1891.



TeeJay

Hello Thomas and welcome to the community boards.


It's been a while since this thread was added to and it may be that Michele is no longer checking for replies.

You can try clicking on her name and sending your information that way. If she still has the same email address, she will be notified.

Regards. Cx.