Find Ancestors

frederick john thompson norman born seaton cumberland in 1856, his mother was ann norman a spinster, he was christened in st michaels church workington cumberland. He was with a George Sweeney,57yrs old, born the isle of man, and his wife Martha who was 56yrs old from Maryport cumberland on the 1861 census, he was 4yrs old and described as a nephew. Can't find anything about his mother Ann at all.

no i haven't Janet

Thanks for that Janet, i will have a look at deaths when i go records office on Wednesday, but it could be a long trawl through them as he was born at Seaton but he was christened at Workington, and i don't know if she was born at seaton or elsewhere! Nothings simple eh? Thanks again Irene.

Irene.
I have Normans from Cumberland as my 3x g grandparents & back. Mine all originated in the Cockermouth area, mostly from the little hamlets in & around. Can´t see an immediate connection with my lot, but most of my records are pre 1800 as my lot moved to the Midlands around 1803.
Have loads of earlier records, so if you need me to look, just let me know.
The Record Office at Whitehaven is very helpful.
Marion

thanks Marion, i thought i had found his mother ann norman bc 1819, christened at camerton church nr seaton,her father was peter norman a husbandman then later he was a miller, he lived at broughton nr cockermouth, but she married a william ponsonby in1845 at somewhere near ennerdale then on 1851 census they lived at broughton but she had a family and frederick norman was bc1856 and his mother was a spinster, so that rules her out. Janet kindly looked for me and found a death of an ann norman in 1859-but that won/t tell me much as to who she was etc. Mary in the records office at whitehaven said i should go and look in the churchyards round that area to see if this ann was buried in a family grave. But you still can't say it was her unless you knew them! Then i thought of looking at this peter norman the miller incase he had a brother who also had a daughter called ann-but i want everything handed to me on a plate-and thats not going to happen is it? Thank you for replying to me though. Irene

Irene.
Ann could have been a widow, although obviously Frederick couldn´t have been her husband´s child.
Have found 1851 census, Ann Norman aged 20 with daughter Annie aged 3.
Says she´s a widow, born Maryport. Living Carlisle.
There´s a possible marriage of Joseph Norman & Ann Milburn, 2nd quarter 1847 Carlisle, possible death for Joseph 1st quarter 1850 Carlisle & a possible daughter Elizabeth, bapt 19.1.1850, St Cuthbert Carlisle & died 2nd quarter 1850.
Can ´t see where the Sweeneys fit in though unless Martha was a widow when she married George. She seems a bit old to have been Ann´s sister.
Have you got the 1881 census for Frederick, his wife Catherine nee Stewart & baby Mary Ann, living with Catherine´s parents at Hollidays´Court,13, Lawson Street Workington.
Marion

1851 Cumberland Rickergate D5c > 42
Ann Norman widow? born Maryport Cumberland 1821
Elizabeth Bell 1793 Aunt born Maryport
Sarah Sowerby cousin 1836 Maryport
Annie Norman daughter 1848 Stanwix.

Anna Maria Norman Christened in Stanwix 30/7/1848 by Joseph Norman and Ann.

Joseph Norman born @ Stanwix 1820 to John and Martha Norman.


Alas maybe not as you said she was a spinster

1851 This is Ann Milburn who married Joseph Norman 18/5/1847
D2 >12 Blackwell High Cumberland
Joseph born @ 1823
Ann born @ 1823 Hayton Cumberland
Mary Ann 1847
Elizabeth

They also had other children including Joseph James Norman 1865 so I think this couple can be ruled out.

Maryb

Thank you Mary for replying to me, yes i have got the 1881 census with them on-now here is another riddle, another member of genes reunited said that martha sweeney was a bell from maryport before she married george sweeney, so its funny that the Ann Norman living at stanwix had an aunt elizabeth bell living with her from maryport! The saga continues. Irene

Martha Bell christened 21/5/1804 Maryport by Thomas Bell and Martha.
Ann Bell ch 3/4/1817 by Thomas and Martha.

1851 Maryport D10d 31
George Sweeley (Sweeney) ships carpenter born Isle of Man
Martha
Margaret daughter 1833 a dressmaker
John 1830 a Tailor.

1841 Crosby Upon Eden maryport D8 >12
Elizabeth BELL 45 plain sewer. (Is this the lady off 1851 as Aunt)
Ann 20 dressmaker (and is this the Ann Norman off 1851)
Margaret SWEENEY 1833
Sarah Sweeney 1836.

These were christened by George and Martha Sweeney
Margaret 15/6/1834
Martha 8/3/1828 died 28/3/1828
Sarah 25/7/1836
Thomas 17/4/1831
john 26/7/1829.

Maryb

Heres another connection.

Margaret Sweeney 1833 married James Holliday in 1853

1861 Margaret holliday seamans wife
Ann holliday 4
George Sweeney holliday 1

1871 Crosscanby D11 >3
James Holliday 41 a Marriner
Margaret
ANN BELL Holliday. 14
Martha.

Maryb

O Mary how very kind of you to forward this imfo on to me, it might be a lead on something. I will have to try and get my head round it and try and find how ann norman fits in, I haven't been doing my tree for very long and it does my head in! But i am enjoying myself. Can i ask you how did you find out about Martha bell so quick? thanks very much for your time. Irene

Looking at census returns on Ancestry .co.uk and there is a site called Hugh Wallis.
Just google it and go to the counties you are intersted in.
it is a free site.

Maryb

On Familysearch.
Martha Bell marr George Sweeney 9.6.1827 Crosscanonby.
Think Aunt Elizabeth Bell is probably Elizabeth Robinson who married Martha Bell´s brother Thomas 23.2.1815 Crosscanonby.
Thomas Bell bapt 20.4.1795 Maryport. s/o Thomas Bell & Martha.
Marion

I think on 1851 census with Elizabeth Bell aunt says she is unmarried.
She is down as Ball but reads Bell on original view.

Maryb

Thank you very much wisechild, and mary, both of you have been very kind, didn't think i would get all this help and information from anyone, i am overwhelmed by it! Am off to records office this morning armed with all these facts. Irene.

Good Luck Irene.

Maryb

Hope you have found what you are looking for.
Marion

Did find martha bells christening and 4 of her siblings including Thomas born 1795, found their parents marriage in 1792. Also found a marriage on 15/1/1857 of an Annie Norman 20yrs who lived at maryport at that time marrying a william bowen mathias, 29 a widow and surgeon, and living at maryport, Frederick john thompson norman was christened on 20/7/1856. So that could be a possible match? It's not 'cut and dried' though, so maybe it's time to put that ancestor to rest, i don't know what else to do. Watch this space, i do really appreciate both your help, thanks once again. Irene.

Forgot to say Annie norman-married name mathias was born in durham according to the 1871 cencus, but one of her sons was called william BELL mathias!!!!!!!.Irene

I found an 1871 census with William Bowen Mathias and Annie his wife and children on at Maryport and one of her sons was called William BELL Mathias!!!!!!! Irene.Coincedence or what?