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I am helping a friend with her family tree and we have hit a brick wall. She has a birth certificate for her grandfather as follows
Charles George Chapman b 27 Nov 1886 registered 12 Jan 87
address 7 Oldfield Rd Rotherhithe, Father William Chapman a Hawker
mother Jemima Chapman late Hogg formerly Whitworth. We already know that Jemima was previously married to a Mark Hogg and he died in 1882, her maiden name was Palmer Whitworth, we cannott find a marriage for Jemima to William Chapman, nor can we find them on the 91, there is a record of a Jemima Chapmans death in 87 which may be her, without a marriage certificate for William and Jemima we have no way of knowing any other details about him, age, fathers name etc. we both have full acess to Ancestry but cant find the marriage, have looked under Chapman/ Hogg/Whitworth/Palmer but nothing. I know that a different site will sometimes throw up a record because of a different search criteria and wondered if anyone with access to another site could find record opf the marriage? could they have registered the birth but not actually been married even though her name is given as Jemima Chapman?

The quick answer is that she could have claimed to be married to William Chapman, but was not, and registered the birth as if she were married.

Could you do that, would they have asked for proof? would he have had to be there? we have thought of that, perhaps there was no William Chapman!

Is this them in 1901?:
1901 England Census
George Chapman
Age: 14 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation: Boarder Gender: Male Where born: Rotherhithe, London, England
Civil parish: Rotherhithe Ecclesiastical parish: St Barnabas
County/Island: London Country: England Registration district: St Olave Southwark Sub-registration district: Rotherhithe ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Household schedule number: 618

William Clement 54
Caroline Clement 50
George Chapman 14 pipe turner(?)
William Chapman 39 widower general dealer Rotherhithe


Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 398; Folio: 133; Page: 23.

That may explain it, perhaps we will never find William, as you all know it is impossible to go back further without more info on him and trouble is there seem to be a lot of William Chapmans.

It could be, he was reistered as Charles George, but as l have said before without that marriage certificate there is no way of qualifing the record. What is the address?

Thats a good idea peterandjaki, will try that

1901 address is 43 St Helena Rd.

Patchem, l have looked at that record and the district seems right , if that is the right William where is he on the 91?cant find him or Charles/George

1911
WATSON, Henry Head Married M 50 1861 Greengrocer London Bermondsey
WATSON, Hannah Wife Married 28 years F 45 1866 Home London Bermondsey
CHAPMAN, William Boarder Widower M 50 1861 Hawker London Bermondsey Surrey

RG number: RG14 Piece: 1934 Reference: RG14PN1934 RG78PN68 RD24 SD3 ED21 SN61
Registration District: St Olave (Bermondsey) Sub District:
Rotherhithe Enumeration District: 21 Parish: Bermondsey
Address: 3 Chilton ST County: London

No, cannot find them in 1891.

patchem, that looks like William, a Hawker as on the birth certificate, we already know that Charles was killed at the battle of Jutland in 1916, l feel sure this is the right William, he moved around a bit! in 1901 he seems to have a shop but back to hawker now, wonder if that is the samr thing as general dealer,second hand shop l suppose?

yes peterandjaki we have got the marriage certificate and the fathers name is William Chapman, will have to check with my friend for the address on the certificate to see if it might tie in with the 1911 address, many thanks everyone for your help, l knew someone on here would be able to point us in the right direction!

patchem how did you do the 1911 census, thats not properly online with Ancestry yet, is it on Genes or Find My Past?

I used Find My Past

thanks patchem

????
1881 England Census
Name: William Chapman
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Rotherhithe, Surrey, England
Civil parish: Rotherhithe
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 42 Osprey St

Occupation: Costermonger

Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: Rotherhithe
Household Members:
Name Age
Jane Anstey 63
Charles Anstey 21
William Chapman 19
George Mackerell 38

General Dealers didn't necessarily have a shop.