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Hi

Any help in locating a death record for my maternal grt grandmother Rosina Sophia Greenman c1866 would be very much appreciated.

These would be her 1901 / 11 census records:

1901 Census: Coburg Road, Wood Green.
William Graham, head, (45), born abt 1856, Sophia R Graham, wife (35) born 1866 Cardiff, wales. William (9) (1892), Hollis (3) (1898), Clara (6) 1895), Ernest (1) (1900). All children born in Wood Green


1911 Census: 21 Coburg Rd, Wood Green.
William Graham, Head, married 20 years (51) 1860 b Holloway. Rose, Wife, (44) 1867 b Wiltshire. William (18) Carman (1893). Clara H (17) (1894) ScewMarket. Horace J (13) 1898. Sidney (11) (1900). Albert (9) (1902). Lily (6) (1905) All Children born in Wood Green, london.

I have never been able to find a marriage reference for Wiliam or Rose so would not know if she would be buried as Greenman or Graham??

Thank you

Let

do you think it is possible that she had gone by Graham for so long that her family didn't know what her birth name was ?

Deaths Mar 1943
GREEN Rosina S 77 Greenwich 1d 819

the age works out to dob 1866

At death she would be buried under the name that the informant gave so if they believed she was Mrs Graham, that would be how she was registered.

Do you know if any of the family went back to Wales, as this is very vaguely possible:
Sophia Graham
Death Registration Month/Year: 1921
Age at death (estimated): 56
Registration district: Newport (Mon.)
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 251

Added:
Was she born Wales or Wiltshire, as saw Cardiff in 1901, so why Wiltshire in 1911?

I certainly agree with that ! if they believed she was Mrs Graham that's what they would have said

I was just thinking they may have known she wasn't and been muddled about her real name ... just a long shot really !

Have you found any other info about her other than the two censuses? For example, how do you know her maiden name? I'm assuming you've seen a birth certificate for one of her children.

Ozi

I do not know! On her daughters 1904 birth cerificate, my grandmother. It states thats Mrs Graham's was formerly Greenman. Not much help really am I.

Just for reference:

Wonder why place of birth is Cardiff on here and Wiltshire on the 1911 census?

1901 census - household transcription
Person: GRAHAM, William
Address: 19, Coburg Road, Wood Green
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GRAHAM, William Head Married M 45 1856 Labourer (General)
Clerkenwell London
GRAHAM, Sophia R Wife Married F 35 1866 Cardiff Wales
GRAHAM, William Son M 9 1892 Wood Green Middlesex
GRAHAM, Hollis Son M 3 1898 Wood Green Middlesex (Horace?)
GRAHAM, Clara Daughter F 6 1895 Wood Green Middlesex
GRAHAM, Ernest Son M 1 1900 Wood Green Middlesex

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RG number: RG13 Piece: 1259 Folio: 100 Page: 34
Registration District: Edmonton Sub District: Tottenham
Enumeration District: 87 Ecclesiastical Parish: St Michael's Wood Green
Civil Parish: Wood Green

????
1891 England Census
Name: Rosina Greenman
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1867
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Alfred Greenman
Mother's name: Annie Greenman
Gender: Female
Where born: Glos, Wootton Under Edge
Civil Parish: Hullavington
Ecclesiastical parish: Hullavington
Town: Hullavington
County/Island: Wiltshire <<<<<<<<
Country: England
Street address: No 3 Piccadily

Registration district: Malmesbury
Sub-registration district: Malmesbury Western
Household Members:
Name Age
Alfred Greenman 48 - Bricklayer
Annie Greenman 39
Rosina Greenman 24
Elizabeth Greenman 14
Drew Greenman 6

1911 census - household transcription
Person: GRAHAM, William
Address: 21 Coburg Road Wood Green
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GRAHAM, William Head Married 20 years M 51 1860 Out Of Work Labourer Holloway
GRAHAM, Rose Wife Married F 44 1867 None Wiltshire
GRAHAM, William A Son Single M 18 1893 Carman Woodgreen
GRAHAM, Clara H Daughter Single F 17 1894 Scew Market Woodgreen
GRAHAM, Horace J Son M 13 1898 Woodgreen
GRAHAM, Sidney E Son M 11 1900 Woodgreen
GRAHAM, Albert E Son M 9 1902 Woodgreen
GRAHAM, Lily Daughter F 6 1905 Woodgreen

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RG number: RG14 Piece: 7270 Reference:
RG14PN7270 RG78PN354 RD132 SD2 ED25 SN212
Registration District: Edmonton Sub District: Wood Green Enumeration District: 25
Parish: Wood Green

Do you know if most of your family stayed in London, or did they spread, so that we are looking for a death anywhere?
Have you any recollection of anyone mentioning when she died - present at any weddings or christenings or any family photos?
Have you got William's death certificate - to see if he was already widowed or she still alive, and area of country, etc.
Thanks

No I do not have William's death certificate. Again I am unable to locate it. They are very interesting questions. Sorry to say I do not know much about that side of my family. I know my grandmother Lilian, Rosina's daughter stayed in the London area all her life. So I am assuming that her mother possible stayed there as well??

a possible for William

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
about William R Graham Name: William R Graham
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Year of Registration: 1911
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 52
District: Willesden
County: Middlesex
Volume: 3a
Page: 146

If the 1911 census was taken 2nd April 1911 and Wiliam is showing.

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
about William R Graham Name: William R Graham
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Year of Registration: 1911
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 52
District: Willesden
County: Middlesex
Volume: 3a
Page: 146

He must of died after April 1911?

Possible???
Name: William Graham
Death Registration Month/Year: 1926
Age at death (estimated): 65
Registration district: St George Hanover Square
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1a
Page: 572

Thank you Cathy . The 1901 census indicates his DOB as 1856 and the 1911 at 1860. So it is possible? I assume this is the earliest death for a William Graham after 1911 that would fit the criteria?

1881 census - household transcription
Person: GREENMAN, Rose
Address: (Frog Lane), Hullavington
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GREENMAN, John Head Widower M 54 1827 Mason Deaf Hullavington Wiltshire
GREENMAN, Clara Daughter Single F 18 1863 Hullavington Wiltshire
GREENMAN, Rose Daughter Single F 13 1868 Hullavington Wiltshire
GREENMAN, James Son Single M 10 1871 Scholar Hullavington Wiltshire
GREENMAN, Sidney Son Single M 6 1875 Scholar Hullavington Wiltshire

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RG number: RG11 Piece: 2028 Folio: 58 Page: 6
Registration District: Malmesbury Sub District: Malmesbury Western
Civil Parish: Hullavington

1871 census - household transcription
Person: GREENMAN, Rose Helena
Address: Cottage, Hullavington, Malmesbury
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GREENMAN, John Head M 51 1820 Wiltshire
GREENMAN, Harriat Wife F 41 1830 Wiltshire
GREENMAN, Mabrose Son M 18 1853 Wiltshire
GREENMAN, Abel John Son M 12 1859 Wiltshire
GREENMAN, Cecilia Daughter F 10 1861 Wiltshire
GREENMAN, Clara Harriat Daughter F 7 1864 Wiltshire
GREENMAN, Rose Helena Daughter F 4 1867 Wiltshire
GREENMAN, Worthy James Son M 0 1871 Wiltshire

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RG number: RG10 Piece: 1893 Folio: 9 Page: 11
Registration District: Malmesbury Sub District: Malmesbury West
Enumeration District: 8 Civil Parish: Hullavington Municipal Borough:Malmesbury

OK, this will take you a while to go through, but it looks as if the family stayed in the Edmonton (Wood Green) area until at least the 1940s.

To start with, the children's births:
Births Mar 1892
Graham William Alfred Edmonton 3a 372

Births Sep 1894
Graham Clara Harriet Edmonton 3a 316

Births Sep 1897
Graham Horace James J Edmonton 3a 398

Births Mar 1900
Graham Sidney Ernest Edmonton 3a 400

Births Jun 1902
GRAHAM Albert Edward Edmonton 3a 420

Births Sep 1904
Graham Lilian Ada R Edmonton 3a 477



Then their marriages:
Marriages Jun 1915
Graham Clara H Eates Edmonton 3a 1706

Marriages Dec 1927
Graham Sidney E Wood Edmonton 3a 1463

Marriages Sep 1929
Graham Horace J J Coleman Edmonton 3a 1807

Marriages Sep 1932
Graham Lilian A R Keyte Edmonton 3a 2347



And lastly their deaths:
Deaths Sep 1921
Graham Albert E 19 Edmonton 3a 491

Deaths Mar 1947 (eldest son?)
Graham William A 54 Edmonton 5e 366

Deaths Mar 1946
Graham Horace J J 48 Edmonton 3a 1183




So therefore, how about these two? The ages are close to your folk.
Deaths Sep 1939
Graham Rosina E 72 Edmonton 3a 842

Deaths Mar 1943
GRAHAM William E 87 Edmonton 3a 1191

This is the only marriage I can find that is Graham+Eates.
Marriages Jun 1915
Eates William J Graham Edmonton 3a 1706
Graham Clara H Eates Edmonton 3a 1706

Surely these can't be all their children??? (I've not shown the birth years except for the first two, as these people may still be living.)
Births Dec 1913
Eates Rosina C Graham Edmonton 3a 850
Births Dec 1916
Eates Maudina V Graham Edmonton 3a 823
Births Dec
Eates Clara H Graham Edmonton 3a 673
Eates Florence K Graham Edmonton 3a 673
Births Sep
Eates Doris Graham Edmonton 3a 932
Births Sep
Eates William A Graham Edmonton 3a 867
Births Mar
EATES Mary E Graham Edmonton 3a 760
Births Sep
Eates Sidney H Graham Edmonton 3a 774
Births Mar
Eates John H Graham Barnet 3a 727
Births Jun
Eates Doreen V Graham Barnet 3a 892
Births Mar
Eates Leonard A Graham Barnet 3a 893
Births Sep
Eates Marina B Graham Barnet 3a 1063