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Trying to find out more about Dorothy Barnes (both married and maiden name), husband George, daughter believed married to Thomas Noble 1948. Daughter Joyces' Birth (1928) registered in West Ham (poss born East Ham). They seem to have been a massive family and/or a very common surname in the area. Any info will assisst in my family tree (and check I've picked up the right family); particularly hard to find anyones's siblings post the 1911 census so any hints on that would be appreciated too.

Do you have this birth cert?

Births Jun 1928 (>99%)
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Barnes Joyce P Barnes W.Ham 4a 139

Marriages Jun 1926 (>99%)
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Barnes George H Barnes W.Ham 4a 576


Clearly, freebmd have made errors in their transcriptions

Marriages Jun 1926 (>99%)
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Banks Charles E Enever W.Ham 4a 576
Barnes George H Barnes W.Ham 4a 576
Enever Rosina L Banks W. Ham 4a 576
LAKEN George S Ross W.Ham 4a 576


Found the 'other half' by trawling on Ancestry.....first name Dorothy

I'm not sure, Nita, what you are actually looking for........perhaps you could clarify?

There is also this birth:
Births Mar 1928
Barnes Joyce M George W.Ham 4a 207

Do you know if Joyce is still alive, and what relation is she to you?
Thanks

It's Joyce P, patchem.........I checked the marriage to Noble, which was in Wiltshire.

????????

Name: Joyce Patricia Noble
Birth Date: 4 Mar 1928
Death Registration Month/Year: Mar 1999
Age at death (estimated): 71
Registration district: Bridlington
Inferred County: Yorkshire
Register number: 44A
District and Subdistrict: 5441
Entry number: 163

OK, had not got as far as marriage, just getting intrigued by Joyce M's mother's maiden name being George, which is father's first name - but is not as is wrong Joyce.

Nita,
Quite a lot of this was found in free bmd, which is free for anyone to access.

Nita

To know if you've 'picked up' the right family, you must start from the present, and work backwards, checking every step by obtaining documentary proof.........................otherwise, you could go along entirely the wrong lines.

wow! thanks for all your help, I had the birth but hadn't been able to find the marriage on free BMDas my searches didnt' pick that up for some reason., nor the deathas I had no idea which year to start. I'm interested in Dorothy's maiden and married name being the same - at first I thought Joyce had been born out of wedlock as there was some illegitimacy covered up in the family but the marriage diffuses that one - maybe a conincidence or they were cousins? I only check the boards twice a week or so, so forgive my slow reply

actually I think you may havefound a third Joyce P in West Ham.I have two - It's interesting, the middle name isn't right on the June birht; but the marriage of Joyce to Noble states her age as 19 at end March 1948 - wheras the one with the right middle name would have been 20 by then - possibly an error on the marriage certificate I suppose?

What was the name given for the father of the one who married Noble in 1948?

What is the 'right' second name?

If we are to help you, we need to know all that you know

Also, we need to know what you wish to know.....................your message didn't exactly make that clear

Who is it that you actually have a connection to?

Father of the right one is 'George' signing George H if it's him signing as witness.
Correct middle name is Patricia. So it all matches up except she would have just had her b'day when married and so actually 20 (so I'm being wary in case there's another Joyce Patricia that year I haven't stumbled upon as the Barnes' are so numerous and George isn't an uncommon name!)

It's Dorothy (assuming I've got Joyce ok) I've got particularly 'stuck' on and I'm curious to know if she had more children than Joyce and more about her herself - marriage, death, her siblings. I'm getting better at using the freeBMD site which will hopefully help

I'm unusually vague for such recent generations as my only current living source of information is unreliable. This is my own tree and I'm aware there may be living relatives of Joyces' generation and younger so am keen to be discrete to respect their privacy as I know there were reasons for family estrangement but not what those reasons were.

not being weird with my alias change - I hadn't realised the change display thingy hadn't been working properly and only just got it sorted :-) nita

Is the death the right person?

If so, bear in mind that there is a 6-week period allowed for registering births..........which could take you to the second half of April, thus showing the birth as being registered in the Jun Qtr (April, May June).

As for her being recorded as 19 when she married...................take into consideration that she would have been 19 when the wedding was arranged, and she may not have thought to specify that she would have a birthday in the interim.............

'George H Barnes' matches the marriage info posted.............

It would be very difficult to identify possible siblings for Joyce......there's no way of knowing in this case whether MMN Barnes relates to a married woman, or an unmarried one.

Please can you say if Joyce is your direct line..................

The Joyce Patricia I have birth for matches the death i.e. born 4th March, registered April. So not neccessarily the birth you have found for June which has different reference numbers......

Good point about MMN being married before - makes it all more complicated :-)

Yes a Joyce Patrica Noble nee Barnes is my direct line. As far as I can tell it's one of the West Ham ones as I only found the one marriage with the right names and that gave me the approx DOB to pick up the West Ham births....

Do you actually have the birth cert?

If so, what are the exact details on it?

If not, getting it would be the answer.

As Joyce is deceased, you don't have to be worried about posting info..................

Have birth cert - Joyce Patricia born 4th march 1928, regd 7th April, Farther George Barnes (no intial H here) Mother Dorothy Barnes formerly Barnes
district of Plaistow, West Ham