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Well my money has just been refunded back to me as they can't find an Elizabeth Owen birth with father Robert Owen and mother Ann Williams so i'm back to my brick wall again grrrrr

Thank you, hopefully Elizabeth's birth certificate will give me more information...

1841 Wales Census about Rowland Williams
Name: Rowland Williams
Age: 65
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1776
Gender: Male
Where born: Caernarvonshire, Wales

Civil parish: Llan fair fechan
Hundred: Uchaf
County/Island: Caernarvonshire
Country: Wales

Street Address: View image
Occupation: View image

Registration district: Bangor and Beaumaris
Sub-registration district: Llanllechid
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1396
Book: 5
Folio: 12
Page Number: 15
Household Members:
Name Name
Rowland Williams 65 Farmer
Ann Williams 65
William Williams 30
Ann Williams 25
Richiard Williams 20
Ann Roberts 15

I am gonna order Elizabeth's birth certificate and see what it says on there....

Am not sure if they did marry, Robert Owen was a labourer according to Elizabeth's marriage certificate. From the banns it is saying that anne wasn't married before, hmmm interesting. Is there a Rowland Owen with daughter Ann on the 1841 census please?

Thank you for all the help so far.
Kind regards
Danielle

Mary thanks for that I have been looking for Ann Owen marrying.........

Moody Blue I can't find them on the 1841 census.

Anne Williams married A/M/J 1849 Liverpool to John Shemhart.V20 P 333
Notice she married in her maiden name!

Edit I've found the Banns
Liverpool St Simon,married 5 /6/1849
John Schunhart full age bachelor watchmaker of Park lane dad Joseph a Tailor
Anne Williams full age Spinster of Gloster/Gloucester Street dad Rowland Williams a Labourer.
Witnessed by James Lowe and Ann McGee.

So did she actually marry Robert owen??

Maryb

Possible


Civil Registration event: Marriage
Print Close
Name: OWEN, Robert
Registration district: Bangor
County: Caernarvonshire
Year of registration: 1840
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume no: 27
Page no: 420

MarriageFinder: Robert Owen married one of the following people:

OWENS, Margaret

PARRY, Jane

WILLIAMS, Ann

ROWLAND, Ellin

ELLIS, John

JONES, Owen

WILLIAMS, Hugh



Think it may be Jane Parry that married Robert Owen.............................................



1841 Wales Census about Robert Owen
Name: Robert Owen
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Gender: Male
Where born: Caernarvonshire, Wales

Civil parish: Bangor
Hundred: Bangor City
County/Island: Caernarvonshire
Country: Wales

Street Address: View image
Occupation: View image

Registration district: Bangor
Sub-registration district: Bangor
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1398
Book: 1
Folio: 47
Page Number: 15
Household Members:
Name Name
John Prichard 25
Robert Owen 30
Jane Owen 35


BUT


1841 Wales Census about Robert Owen
Name: Robert Owen
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Gender: Male

Civil parish: Bangor
Hundred: Bangor City
County/Island: Caernarvonshire
Country: Wales

Street Address: View image
Occupation: View image

Registration district: Bangor
Sub-registration district: Bangor
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1398
Book: 2
Folio: 16
Page Number: 23
Household Members:
Name Name
Robert Owen 25
Ann Owens 20
Ellinor Owens 8 Mo

1861 England Census
about Ann Shemhart
Name: Ann Shemhart
Age: 42
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1819
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Angleshire, Wales

Civil parish: Toxteth Park
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: BEER SELLER**********************

Condition as to marriage: Widow

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 25
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 89
Piece: 2702
Folio: 10
Page Number: 17
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Shemhart 42
Elizabeth Shemhart 18
Richard Jones 41
George Monton 22
Elizabeth Jones 48
William O'brien 24




1871 England Census
about John Clayton
Name: John Clayton
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Clayton
Gender: Male
Where born: Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England
Civil parish: Nether Hoyland
Ecclesiastical parish: Elsecar
Town: Stubbin
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Barnsley
Sub-registration district: Darfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Household schedule number: 79
Piece: 4650
Folio: 32
Page Number: 17
Household Members: Name Age
John Clayton 31
Elizabeth Clayton 27
Mary A Clayton 8
Theodore Clayton 7
Henrietta Clayton 5
Rowland Clayton 3
Nabonasser Clayton 1
Ann Schanhardt 50

Does it give an occupation for Robert on that marriage cert please?

Dea x

I have finally got somewhere on this with alot of help from my mother. My mum passed away last June and although we hadn't been speaking, her ancestry research was passed to me. She had bought Theodore's birth certificate and mothers maiden name was Owen and not Shunhart which is what i had thought, turns out that elizabeth's mother had remarried but i only found this out a couple of weeks ago when i recieved Ann Schunhardt death certifcate. So, i also ordered Theodore and Elizabeth's marriage certificate and her father's name is Robert Owen, who died somewhere between 1843 and 1849. 1849 is when Elizabeths mother remarried. I think Ann's maiden name was Williams and that her and Robert married in 1840. So can anyone please find Robert and Ann on the 1841 census? They were living in wales, probably Bangor or Anglesey. Thank you in advance Danielle

...following on from londonbelle.......There is a marriage of a John Clayton to an Elizabeth Owen...which sounds a bit Welsh to me........ref 9C 189 Barnsley Dec 1862 the same quarter that Mary Ann Clayton was born in Barnsley-- also there are many Elizabeth Owens on Anglesey at the time of Elizabeth Clayton's d o b -jle

have you seen the Coedana 1851 census details here

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/AGY/Coedana/CoedanaA_38.html

I'm going to make the wild guess that, as this is one of the Irish gypsy camps, Ann and probably Elizabeth were Irish which might also explain the enumerator writing Angleshire?

out of interest have you got the death cert for Ann? I can't find her in 1891 either,I thought it may give a clue?

Deaths Dec 1895 (>99%)
-

Schunhardt Ann 75 Sheffield 9c 383

thank you anyway...

I've tried all the variants and phonetic searches etc but not coming up with anything I'm afraid

okay thank you

It might be that you will have to get a copy of a birth certificate

Births Dec 1863
CLAYTON Theodore W Derby 8b 343

It might be that Elizabeth's mother remarried and Elizabeth assumed that name so it might not be her birth name that she would have used for her marriage.....if that makes sense!

that census is also correct thank you....