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Hello all
I am just helping to trace the HAYES family tree but seem to be stuck in trying to find the exact number of children born to a couple and finding the family in 1881

John & Mary Alice Hayes (Nee Berry) can be found in 1911at 28 Green St , Tyldesley, Lancs (Mary Alice is widowed and living with Sons Edward aged 19 and Fred aged 16). She says she has 12 children born and 10 died, leaving only 2 surviving (This can''t be true as we know she also had a Daughter named Mary Ann who was married to William Roberts by this time).

In 1901 they live at the same address. John Hayes (head) aged 44. Mary Alice aged 42, Edward aged 9, Fred aged 6 and Daughter Mary Ann Roberts aged 24 with her new Hubby William Roberts.

I can find them in 1891, just John hayes, Mary Alice and Daughter Mary Ann at Marland Square, Tyldesley, Lancs. Mary An is only 14 so I find it strange she is an only child at 14years old?

I now cannot find them in 1881 to see if they have any more children?

And can anyone help and find exactly how many kids were born to John hayes & Mary Alice Berry ?

THANK YOU in advance for your help. I really have hit a wall with this.
Lorraine

Is this their marriage?

Marriages Dec 1875 (>99%)
ASPINALL David Leigh 8c 299
>>>BERRY Mary Alice Leigh 8c 299
FOGG Mary Leigh 8c 299
>>>Hayes John Leigh 8c 299

Hello Lorraine - what were John and Mary Alice's birthplaces?.. and John's occupation.

The 1891 for reference:

HAYES, John Head Married M 35 1856 Coal Miner Whiston Lancashire
HAYES, Mary Alice Wife Married F 33 1858 Cotton Reeler Manchester Lancashire
HAYES, Mary Ann Daughter Single F 14 1877 Cotton Reeler Tyldesley Lancashire

Registration District: Leigh Sub District: Atherton
Enumeration District: 12 Ecclesiastical Parish: Tyldesley

Civil Parish: Tyldesley with Shakerley Municipal Borough:

Address: Marland Square, Tyldesley With Shakerley, Tyldesley County: Lancashire

??
1881 census transcription details for: 1, Marland Sq Off Shuttle St, Tyldesley With Shackerley

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11 Piece: 3810 Folio: 83 Page: 35


Reg. District: Leigh Sub District: Atherton
Parish: Tyldesley with Shackerley Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 1, Marland Sq Off Shuttle St, Tyldesley With Shackerley
County: Lancashire

HAYNES, John Head Married M 25 1856 Coal Miner
Whiston Lancashire
HAYNES, Mary A Wife Married F 24 1857 Coal Miner Wife
Openshaw Lancashire
HAYNES, Mary A Daughter Single F 4 1877 Scholar
Tyldesley Lancashire


Maureen

Here's the 1881:

HAYNES, John Head Married M 25 1856 Coal Miner Whiston Lancashire
HAYNES, Mary A Wife Married F 24 1857 Coal Miner Wife Openshaw ? Lancashire
HAYNES, Mary A Daughter Single F 4 1877 Scholar Tyldesley Lancashire

Registration District: Leigh Sub District: Atherton

Civil Parish: Tyldesley with Shackerley

Address: 1, Marland Sq Off Shuttle St, Tyldesley With Shackerley
County: Lancashire

Lorraine, I'm wondering if they misunderstood the question on the 1911 census and took it to mean how many children still living at home? Which of course the two sons were.

To discover the names of the missing children you will need to check the lists of births and deaths of children with the surname Hayes born in the Leigh, Lancashire registration district. Start with Mary Ann who appears to probably have been their first born going on the parents marriage date in late 1875.



You can do this relatively easily and for free at:

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Obviously not all the "Hayes" will be John and Mary Alice's children but using a minimum of 9~12 months between births may be a guide as to which ones may have been theirs.

Hello everyone
Yes this certainly looks like the family but named HAYNES in 1881 : )

I have John hayes born at Whiston, Lancs in 1857
Mary Alice Berry was born Openshaw, Lancs

The marriage you have found Jonesey , I would say IS the correct marriage for them as I only discvered this last night. : )

Brilliant..so it seems Mary Ann WAS their first child until Edward came along which seems odd??
thanks
Lorraine

sorry, and Johns occupation at time of death in 1905 was caretaker, but throughout his life seemed to be a coal miner


cheers

I agree MarieCeleste, I did think she thought how many children at home, which still leaves me now lokng for 10 dead children.? A family source (no longer with us) used to say that John & Mary Alice had 10 children in total....

I shall have a look again n the Free BMD Jonesey - thank you
I am told a child named jane was their Daughter, born and died 1896...

cheers

just had a go on the freebmd sing firstly Hayes & Berry which found nothing, then just Hayes in the Leigh area between 1877 and 1900. It brought up loads so it would be impossibel to guess which would have belonged to John & Mary Alice : ( (Unless I am searching wrongly?)

You may have more luck with:
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html

I was only able to find:
Baptisms: 6 Nov 1884 St George, Tyldesley, Lancashire, England
Lily Hayes - Child of John Hayes & Mary Alice
Abode: 1 Merlin Sq.(sic) Tyldesley
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: R.Willett
Register: Baptisms 1883 - 1895, Page 19, Entry 148
Source: LDS Film 1885664


Baptisms: 7 Nov 1889 St George, Tyldesley, Lancashire, England
Annie Hayes - Child of John Hayes & Mary Alice
Abode: 1 Morlands Sq. Tyldesley
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: R.Willett
Register: Baptisms 1883 - 1895, Page 129, Entry 1025
Source: LDS Film 1885664


Baptisms: 5 Mar 1895 St George, Tyldesley, Lancashire, England
Fred Hayes - Child of John Hayes & Mary Alice
Abode: 10 Green St. Tyldesley
Occupation: Collier
Notes: at Mission
Baptised by: R.Willett
Register: Baptisms 1883 - 1895, Page 299, Entry 2390
Source: LDS Film 1885664

Maureen

Sorry for the delay in getting back Maureen - THANK YOU for finding Lily & Annie (we knew about fred) and thank you as you have answered a question I thought of today as it seems St Georges church was the regular church they used. I can hopefuly now go to the local library and look at the microfilms.
I shall certainly look at the web link you suggest

cheers

all the baptisms for St George Tyldesley are supposedly transcribed on lan-opc

anyone know what the note 'at mission' means on that last baptism

Oh right thanks LancashireAnn -
It could be a case that some of the other babies never even made Baptism age, amybe she miscarried some of them?
I found Lily's death on BMD , she was 3yrs, and Annie has 2possible entries to choose from , but both are aged 0 so would need to send for birth certs to prove which was which.
Thanks for pointing out the AT MISSION on the entry for Fred - I would be grateful if anyone could help with this?

Many thanks

the strange thing is - we have not found a baptism for Mary Ann whom you know lived

I wonder if as the first child she was taken to openshaw fro baptism. Openshaw is not on lan-opc and I don't think it is on familysearch either

It is a strong possibilty - pity it is not on Lan-opc........ : (
Edward lived also - can you see his baptism as he lived all his life in Tyldesley (he was born c. 1892 (give or take one year).

Many thanks
: )

sorry - I can't find a baptism for Edward online