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I'm trying to find Arthur Denbigh DANIELL b1873 London in the 1891 census. I have him in all other census', just missing 1891.

Also unable to trace his marriage to Louisa CLARK approx. 1893 (birth of first child with her).

Born: 25 May 1873
3 Harrison Street, Pancras, Middlesex, England
Parents: John DANIELL and Henrietta Elizabeth Mary BACON

1881 census
96 Hornsey Road, St Marys Islington, London, England

30 Sep 1893
26 Pottery Road, Brentford, Middlesex, England
Builders Labourer - taken from son Arthur Denbigh's birth cert

30 Dec 1895
67 New Road, Brentford, Middlesex, England
Builders Labourer - taken from birth cert son George Edward

16 Nov 1897
67 New Road, Brentford, Middlesex, England
Builders Labourer - taken from daug Mabel Florence's birth cert

27 Nov 1898
76 Distillery Road, Old Brentford, Middlesex, England
via birth cert Charles Richard Williams

1901 census
76 Distillery Road, Old Brentford, Middlesex, England

20 Oct 1902
344 High Street, Brentford, Middlesex, England
via death cert son Leslie Archibald Williams

27 Nov 1903
344 High Street, Brentford, Middlesex, England
Furniture Dealer - taken from daug Louisa Henrietta's birth cert

15 Feb 1908
Marriage to Minnie Louise French
32 Cambridge Cottages, Kew, Richmond, Surrey, England

1911 census
32 Cambridge Cottages, Kew, Richmond, Surrey, England

Death 21 Feb 1944 Richmond, Surrey

Thanks for any help.

Regards,
Rebecca

Can't find anything thta you do not already have. I suppose you know there are a lot of Public trees on Ancestry with him in them and none have his marriage date to Louisa Clark

On son Arthur's bapstism entry on Ancestry the name is spelled Arthur Denby Daniels, Have you tried that spelling?

where does the Williams surname come from ?

1901

268 WILLIAMS, Arthur Head Married M 28 1873 Builder Labourer
Brentford
Middlesex VIEW
268 WILLIAMS, Lousia Wife Married F 31 1870
Brentford
Middlesex VIEW
268 WILLIAMS, Arthur Son M 7 1894
Brentford
Middlesex VIEW
268 WILLIAMS, George Son M 5 1896
Brentford
Middlesex VIEW
268 WILLIAMS, Mabel Daughter F 3 1898
Brentford
Middlesex VIEW
268 WILLIAMS, Charles Son M 2 1899
Brentford
Middlesex VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG13 Piece:
1194 Folio:
75 Page:
46

Registration District:
Brentford Sub District:
Brentford Enumeration District:
29 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St Georges

Civil Parish:
Old Brentford Municipal Borough:
Address:
76, Distillery Road, Old Brentford, Brentford County:

Have just noticed the marriage to Minnie Louise French. Have you found a death for Louisa?

How did he become a Williams?

Marriages Mar 1908 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

French Minnie Louise Richmond S 2a 648
WILLIAMS Arthur Dembigh Richmond, S. 2a 648

There are more children.

British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920
Name Birth Year Birth Parish Birth County Residence
Arthur Denbigh Williams abt 1873 32 Cambridge Cottages, Kew Surrey

Arthur Denbigh Williams abt 1873 32 Cambridge Cottages, Kew Surrey

Dear All,

Thanks for all your messages yesterday. I waited about an hour before logging off. I should have looked back yesterday evening. Once again thanks to you all.

Here my comments:

RutlandBelle: Yes thanks, I know all those trees on Ancestry. They have their info from me. Arthur Denbigh DANIELL is my gr grandfather. I've tried every route possible to get his marriage to my gr grandmother Louisa CLARK, but there's no record. I've not tried for about a year and was hoping something new might have been found. Without a marriage cert I am unable to trace my gr grandmother's family. I've tried one Louisa CLARK's birth, but ended up being the wrong one as she was still alive in 1911 when my gr grandmother was buried in 1905.

MargaretManson; Yes thanks. Have tried all kinds of spelling. 1x L, 2x L, with/without S on the end. Still no luck.

Choccy + MargaretManson: I wish I knew where why he changed his name to WILLIAMS in approx. 1898 just before my grandfather Charles was born. No-one knows and until I started researching about 4yrs ago, no-one was even aware that he started out life as DANIELL. It means my name should have been DANIELL and not WILLIAMS...... I've never found anything criminal. He doesn't seem to have come into money via inheritance either (I heard people might change their names to their beneficiary). He did start his own business, so maybe he thought the name Williams was better for that - no idea why..... or maybe he found out that his mother had an affair and his biological father was a Williams' (farfetched, but who knows......). This is a mystery I don't think I will every solve.

Potty: Yes, I have the death cert for my gr grandmother Louisa CLARK on 13 Apr 1905 at 344 High Street, Brentford, Middx. England

SatNav: Indeed I have Arthur Denbigh WILLIAMS jr. I have even visited his grave in France. No-one in my family knew of any full blood siblings to my grandfather Charles. It was quite emotional to find out there were in fact 5 full blood siblings before my gr grandmother Louisa CLARK died in 1905. Unfortunately all died young (illness or war) without children except a sister Henrietta Louisa who married 2x, but also without children. I've managed to trace her "married" families however no-one knows anything about Arthur Denbigh (her father). I've also had contact with the "half" sibling extended families and they also knew nothing about the name change or my gr grandmother Louisa Clark's family.

Hope I've managed to give everyone sufficient info. Any/all suggestions very welcome.

Once again, sorry for the late reply!

Regards,
Rebecca

Does anyone else have any ideas how I could trace the marriage cert for Albert Denbigh DANIELL and Louisa CLARK approx. 1893 (birth first child). Albert's 2nd marriage to Minnie Louise FRENCH notes that he was a widower (correct), so I am assuming that he did actually marry Louisa CLARK. I have been in contact with the local authorities and they have searched but to no avail.

Also still searching for the 1891 census record for Arthur Denbigh DANIELL.

Thanks again.
Rebecca

Rebecca, Arthur was quite old when he joined the Army in 1915 (42). At that age, he would not have been conscripted. A lot of men of this age who joined so early in the war had previously been in the Army and were in the Reserve so were called up in the first years (my grandfather was one which is how I discovered that he had been in the Army between two censuses).

Arthur's Army record says that he had not been in the Army before but maybe that was to cover up the name change?

One page in his Army Recordsit says:
"Has not suffered from Malaria during the present war".

He seems to have served in France and Italy - not countries associated with malaria, so I wonder if he had had malaria in a previous war and if he and Louisa married abroad?

Hi Potty,

I had never thought that he may have been in the army before. May I ask where you found his army record stating "has not suffered from malaria during present war"? I know that he was quite old to join the Army at 42.

If he had been in the Army before then it would have to be between 1881 and 1893 as he is stated to be a "builders labourer" on the birth cert of his eldest son. How would I go about finding any earlier Army enlistment? I'll have to google to see if I can find out which wars took place between 1881 and 1893.

Thanks,
Rebecca

Potty,

I've just found the following via FMP:

Harts Army List

Daniell, Arthur
Royal Regiment of Artillery
Folio 331

Now I need to find out how I can view folio 331 to see if this might be my gr grandfather Arthur Denbigh Daniell.

Does anyone have access to the Harts Army Lists for 1888 to see more details please? Or can someone tell me how I get access?

I haven't found him in Armed Forces Marriages 1796-1994.

Regards,
Rebecca

Hi Rebecca,

Arthur has two WW1 Service records coming up on Ancestry. The first one is only 3 pages but the second (which duplicates the first) has 22. The one with the reference to Malaria is headed "Statement as to Disability". One other thing I noticed in his Army Record, on one page his POB is given as Brixton, Surrey but his birth was registered in Pancras, which is Middlesex.

Have you traced his parents back to see if there is any Williams connection?

I am logging off now and will not be back until the New Year - good luck with your search and let us know if you ever solve the mystery!

Thanks Potty. Have found the Ancestry docs. I had some of the papers already, but not all. Will have to keep investigating a previous army service. But with regards to his age would have to have been between approx. 1889 and 1892 only.

I have no idea why his army records state Brixton as his birth cert is defintely Pancras.

I've not found a Williams connection in either parents lines so far.

Have a great Christmas and will let you know if I solve any part of the mystery.

Potty -
Re: "He seems to have served in France and Italy - not countries associated with malaria, so I wonder if he had had malaria in a previous war and if he and Louisa married abroad?"

I'm not so sure (but in truth, I don't really remember).
Italy in the middle ages was certainly malarial. I saw a TV show where it said a couple of Medici's died of malaria. The evidence of a malarial past exists today in Italy's higher than average incidence of sickle-cell anaemia. This is a genetic disability, except in malarial areas since the malarial parasite isn't adapted to the screwed-up red cells.

I do know that Ross, after getting the Nobel prize for identifying the transmission mechanism of malaria, went to work at Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine, and while there spent some time working on malaria eradication programs in Egypt and Greece. Whether Salonika was in the malarial part of Greece, I don't know, but both were areas of WW1 campaigning, and it wouldn't surprise me if the Po valley in Italy had some malaria, even in 1915-8.

Malcom (mgny),

Thanks for your info. It prompted me to Google "malaria+italy" and I came up with the following article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/jan/06/italy.climatechange

It mentions that malaria is making a "comeback" in Italy. Italy was declared malaria free in 1970. So it would seem feasible that malaria existed in WW1. I will however still look at a possible previous army service record for my great grandfather as you just never know and he's still untraceable in 1891 census.

QUOTE:
Climate change brings malaria back to Italy

Sandwiched between temperate Europe and African heat, Italy is on the front line of climate change and is witnessing a rise in tropical diseases such as malaria and tick-borne encephalitis, a new report says.

Italy was declared free of malaria in 1970, but it is making a comeback, said the Italian environmental organisation Legambiente. Tick-borne encephalitis, a virus which attacks the nerve system, is also on the way back. While only 18 cases had been reported before 1993, 100 have been since, mostly around Venice.

"Illnesses are arriving from Africa, while tropical animals and plants are attacking our biodiversity, droughts and flooding are on the rise, and semi-desert areas are appearing," said Legambiente's director general, Francesco Ferrante.

A third ailment, visceral leishmaniasis, carried by sandflies and potentially fatal, is expanding rapidly, the report added. Cases in Italy have risen to 150 a year from 50 before 2000, with the southern region of Campania a hotspot.

Of six sustained droughts in Italy in the last 60 years four have occurred since 1990. The average temperature has increased by 0.4C in the north in 20 years and by 0.7C in the south. Ten million hectares "are at risk of desertification".

Twenty percent of the fish now swimming in the Mediterranean, including barracuda, are types that have migrated from the Red Sea as water temperatures rise.

Italy's combination of sea coast, mountains, deep valleys and plains gives rise to a rich variety of food products but climate change could tip the balance, Mr Ferrante said. "We are at the southern edge of the globe's temperate area and that is why Italy is being particularly hit by the collapse of the climatic equilibrium."
UNQUOTE.

Rebecca - very enterprising of you - it's an interesting article. Until another TV program earlier this month, I'd never heard of leishmaniasis. On the show they told of a Texas uni student who went down to Bolivia and got infected there. A week later, back in Texas, he's got a spot. Another week later it's grown to an inch across, so he sees his doctor who refers him to a dermatologist. It's another week before he can see this guy, and by then his spot is 3 inches in diameter. They took a punch biopsy and competent lab work soon identified the parasite. He was treated, and responded well - it was killed off in a week, although they waited a month to declare him bug-free. This all happened 3 y ago, and they interviewed the real student on the show - he's still got a scar 3" in diam on his arm - it was really quite scary, not that I'm planning to go anywhere near Bolivia.