Find Ancestors

Maxwell,

I would be buying the death certificate that Mel found as that should have information about any wife and children on it.

Joy Murrin does transcription of certificates which are cheaper than NSWBDM so that should be your next step

Hi Gai, I live in OZ so know what you mean about the privacy constraints. We all seem to tackle genealogy when we retire but the best time to start would be when we are in our teens and can talk to our relatives.
I wish I had done that but they would probably have thought me a sticky beak trying to unearth the family skeltons.
It appears their son Arthur was not killed in the war and unfortunately I don't see a marriage for him in NSW BDM so unless he married interstate it is a dead end.
Many thanks for your help everybody

Maxwell,

I was looking at the electoral rolls for 1930, 1933,1936,1937,1949 and 1954 and no where on these are their any children by the name Hudson living with Arthur or Eileen.

So their son could have enlisted in the Army before he was entitled to vote. I have checked to see if I could see their son somewhere else but have another Arthur Joseph Hudson married to an Eileen Maud Hudson but he is still alive in 1954 so that can't be their son.

Here is Oz we can't access the census records like the UK, which is very unfortunate.

Maxwell,

Found a death of a son

Reg No/Yr Surname Given Names Fathers Name Mothers Name District

302/1953 Hudson Arthur Joseph Arthur Joseph Eileen Veronica Sydney

Arthur also served in WW2

www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch/index.aspx

sign in as a guest

Hi Gai, genesreunited used to give the surname of people seeking to make contact but cut it out about 12 months ago which makes it a chore to identify if you have made contact with them previously particularly the females as sometimes I get their maiden name and at other times their married name which is confusing.
My tree is always open to any members who have asked to view it so it is a possibe they already had access.
I used googleI earth to try to find Toxteth, Australia without success.
Googling Toxteth NSW results in reference to Glebe.
I am guessing it is at Glebe as there is also a Taylot St.and a Toxteth St.there. Toxteth may have been what Glebe was known as in the early days.
Can you please tell me does the census give the names of any children from this marriage?

Maxwell,

Your first sentence intrigued me as the only way that Charles and Maureen could copy the information from your tree is because you have given them access to it.

Now in 1949 both Arthur and Eileen we living together but in 1954 I can only find Eileen in the electoral rolls for 6 Taylor Street in the district of Toxteth, West Sydney.

Hi Charles and Maureen, The information above is mostly correct and appears to have been copied directly from my Genesreunited tree. However it is a can of worms that requires much explaination.
On my father's birth certificate it gives his mother as being Ruby Agnes Ryan, (widow).
Her marriage certificate says she was Ruby Agnes Roberts who married James Ryan in 1905. . James Ryan died , leaving Ruby a widow in 1907. Ruby was employed as kitchen help on a sheep station as part of Thomas Bancroft's shearing team. She had an affair with one of the shearers in 1908, fell pregnant and was sent to Sydney where she gave birth to my father illegitmately on 9/9/1909. Ruby already had a young daughter to care for so opted to give her son who she named Stanley John Ryan up to foster parents. Note.. Ruby was NEVER married to Tom but this is the only way I can show the relationship on genesreunited.
It seems, Eleanor Bancroft answered a knock on her front door and Ruby was standing there. She said you and Tom don't have any children would you like to have my baby. It is what D.O.C.S. call a "Back door adoption" and NSW laws were enacted about 1923 to fomalise the adoption process but the practise persisted until about 1940.
Tom arrived home at the end of the six month shearing season to cries of a baby in the house and on enquiring whose it was Eleanor told him '"it's ours either it stays or you go". It stayed and was raised at Stanley John Bancroft. He was my father.
In 1989 Dad turned 80 and received a telephone call from the Australian Broadcasting Commission for whom he had worked until retirement. They said according to their records he was now 80 and if he could provide them with proof of age they would pay him the age 80 pension increase. He went looking for his birth certificate and discovered it had become lost when they had shifted house recently so he applied to NSW BDM for a new one.
When it arrived it was a "full one" and Dad discovered he had been adopted.
His foster parents Tom and Eleanor had since passed away without telling him he had been adopted so he visited people his "parents" had introduced him to as being his relatives.
They told him they were aware he had been adopted but had been sworn to secrecy and said his biological father 'might have been' a shearer named Browning or Bowning or was simply someone who haled from the NSW town of Bowning.
This hazy story may have been cooked up to cover an extra martial affair between Ruby and Tom. Eleanor's father was a prominant Sydney solicitor so she would have been given plenty of free advice.
Ruby and James Ryan had a daughter Eileen Veronica Ryan in 1905 who married Arthur Hudson in 1923. Unless I can find descendants of Eileen Ryan who you see is actually Dad's half sister, it means I would have to undergo a DNA test to prove Tom Bancroft was my biological grandfather. .

HI Gai and Maxwell,
Ruby Agnes Roberts is one of fourteen children to George E Roberts and Bridget Mary Angela Walsh. George was born in Richmond, NSW, 5 May 1849 and died c.1930 in Summerhill, NSW, Australia. His wife, Bridget was born c.1854 (I have no place of birht) and died c.1973 Sydney.

George E Roberts is the son of Edward Roberts (born 1813) and Mary Gough, born 1817 at Parramatta, NSW. George E was the seventh child to Edward and Mary (who had 12 children).

Edward Roberts was the son of William Roberts and Kezia Brown born 1755 and 1771 respectively - though place of birth unknown.
With regard to Ruby Agnes - we have her as being married four times: firstly to Thomas Bancroft, 2nd was James Ryan, third was Stanly Browning and lastly William Thomas Smith. Our records show four children to William Thomas Smith - William T born 1912, Stanley John b. 1914, Henry F b.1916, and Millicent b.1918 all at Waterloo, NSW.

Re Stanley John Ryan, we have him born on 9 September 1909 in South Sydney Women's Hospital Stanley St. Newtown NSW BDM Reference = 28208/1909 AND we have his parents as Stanley Browning and Ruby Agnes Roberts.
Does this fit?

We can't be sure where we fit in all this except for the Roberts tree is connected to Maureen's family tree.

Best wishes,

Charles and Maureen Miller

Maxwell,

It seems you already know a lot about William and Ruby so what other information are your looking for.

Gai

My father Stanley John Ryan was born in 1909 His mother was Ruby Agnes Roberts c1886 who married James Ryan in 1905. They had a daughter Eileen Veronica Ryan in 1906. James died in 1907. Dad was born illegitimately in 1909 and given up to foster parents Tom and Eleanor Bancroft who raised him as Stanley John Bancroft. Ruby later married William Thomas Smith in 1911 and was living at 43 Mitchell Rd Glebe. I have Ruby Smith's death certificate which confirms this. They had William c1912, Millicent c1912, Stanley c1914, Henry c1916 and Thelma yob unknown. Eileen Ryan married Arthur Hudson in 1923. William died in 1941 and is buried at Rookwood with his wife Ruby.

As NSW deaths can't be searched after 1979 I did a search from 1949 to 1979 and only received two possible matches.

33872/1956
SMITH RUBY AGNES
Father: THOMAS WILLIAM
Mother:MARY LUCY
District : DUBBO

21591/1957
SMITH RUBY AGNES 72 YRS
District: PETERSHAM

If I was a betting person it's possible that the one in Petersham is your Ruby.

There is an death record for a William Thomas Smith who died 1941 registered in the Glebe district. His parents are listed as William John and Mary Alice so I wonder if that could be your William.

NSW BDM Registration Number is 2092/1941.

Gai

In the Electoral Rolls in 1930 and 1933 William is listed as a coach painter and Ruby with home duties.

The address listed is either 43 or 48 Mitchell street under the sub district of Glebe.

In 1936 there is also a William Thomas junior listed as being a labourer then he disappears after this year or I just can't find him.

In 1937 they are at the same address but it's just William and Ruby.

In 1943 and 1949 Ruby is still at the same address but there is no William so could he have gone to WW2 and been killed or maybe he just died.

Gai

If you purchase the marriage certificate, it should give you plenty of details, parents names, where born, ages etc.

Reg No/Yr Surname Names Spouses Surname Spouses Names
4023/1911 Smith William T Ryan Ruby Agnes

You can purchase it cheaper from

www.joymurrin.com.au

Hi Kath, I know for certain that Ruby was born in Australia. William Smith being such a common name, makes it impossible to look him up with any surity and I don't know where he was born so it needs world wide attention

I would change your title to include the word "Australia" so that anyone with access to Australian records have more chance of seeing your request.

Kath. x

Can someone do a electoral roll lookup for Arthur & Eileen Hudson please