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Thank you very much - I appreciate your help
Kind regards
Karen

You might as well have the 1891 census - Champion on image

Name: William Chapron
Age: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Mary Chapron
Gender: Male
Where born: Chelsea, London, England

Civil Parish: St Mary Le Strand
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary le Strand
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Strand
Sub-registration district: St Mary le Strand
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Chapron 38
Mary Chapron 36
Algirde Chapron 13
Olive Chapron 11
Henry Chapron 7
Alfred Chapron 3
Edward Heawood 61
John Conway 20

Thank you Christine - you've been really helpful

Karen

This looks like the marriage found earlier.

Name: William John Champion
Age: Full Age
Estimated birth year: abt 1874
Spouse Name: Mary Alice Curtis
Spouse Age: 20
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 25 Dec 1874
Parish: St Dunstan in the West
County: London
Borough: City of London
Father Name: William Champion
Spouse Father Name: Henry Richard Curtis


Possibly William in 1871.




Name: William Champion
Age: 18
Estimated birth year: abt 1853

Father's name: William Champion
Mother's name: Rachel Champion
Gender: Male
Where born: Chelsea, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Dunstan in The West
Ecclesiastical parish: St Dunstan in the West
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: London City
Sub-registration district: St Bride
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 378
Household Members:
Name Age
William Champion 41 kitchen porter
Rachel Champion 39
William Champion 18 stationers assistant
Eleanor Champion 16
James Champion 14
Rachel Champion 12
Alice Champion 9
Bertha Champion 7
Harry Champion 6
Ada Champion 4
Frank Champion 1
George Kirtland 74 lodger

Christine

Thank you Christine

This sheds some more light - I really appreciate your help

Please could I ask if someone wouldnt mind looking earlier to see if they can find out about William John's family and or Mary Ann Curtis?

If not I appreciate everything you've found out for me already
Many Thanks
Karen

Here they are in 1901 and 1881.

1901 England Census
about Herbert J Champion
Name: Herbert J Champion
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1894
Relation: Son
Father's name: William J Champion
Mother's name: Mary A Champion
Gender: Male
Where born: Westminster, London, England

Civil Parish: Lewisham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Lawrence
County/Island: London
Country: England



Registration district: Lewisham
Sub-registration district: Lewisham
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 74
Household Members:
Name Age
William J Champion 48
Mary A Champion 47
Olive Champion 21
Harry N C Champion 19
Ethel Champion 9
Herbert J Champion 7
Adelaide B Montgomery 23 daughter
William E Montgomery 3 grandson
Norman Montgomery 5 Months grandaughter





1881 England Census
about W. J. Champion
Name: W. J. Champion
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: A. M. Champion
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: St Mary Le Strand
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 17 Houghton St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Occupation: Releif Stamper & Illuminator

Registration district: Strand
Sub-registration district: 2B
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
W. J. Champion 27
A. M. Champion 26
Adelaide B. Champion 3
Olive Champion 1

Christine

Thank you very much

This is looking more like it - now I've given better facts!

The marriage is interesting too - we thought the surname was Carter, but it could well be Curtis as it wouldnt be a million miles out. I guess I need herberts birth certificate.

Also, there is an interesting delay if the marriage is right and the kids! I had heard rumour of more children of which we know nothing about, so it may be there are older siblings to investigate and possibly the J Champion that is on Waterloo's roll of honour as it really doesnt look like it would be William John champion. Which I have just looked up and looks like he died in Jun 1932 Lambeth age 79

1911 poss as same street address as marriage cert

CHAMPION, William John Head Married M 58 1853 Relief Stamper Foreman Chelsea VIEW
CHAMPION, Mary Alice Wife Married
36 years F 56 1855 Strand Middlesex VIEW
CHAMPION, Ethel Daughter Single F 19 1892 Envelope None Packer Strand Middlesex VIEW
CHAMPION, Herbert Joseph Son Single M 17 1894 Layer On At Printing Lambeth VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
1945 Reference:
RG14PN1945 RG78PN69 RD25 SD1 ED3 SN230

Registration District:
Lambeth Sub District:
Lambeth Church Enumeration District:
3 Parish:
Lambeth

Address:
30e Aquinas Street Lambeth



??
Name: Herbert Joseph Champion
Year of Registration: 1893
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Lambeth
County: Greater London, London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 341



??
Marriages Dec 1874 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Champion William John London C. 1c 96
Curtis Mary Alice London C. 1c 96

Hi again

I have just been double checking the facts about Herbert with another family member.

There appears to have been some confusion - Sorry.

They believe that he was born 1894 not 1898 and is Herbert J champion not Herbert E champion - sorry about that, ~He definitely married Elizabeth Guthmann

I appreciate the help your giving me, so sorry for getting it wrong

I was working on the birth in 1921 in Edmonton with mothers maiden name of Guthman but could be wrong

You need Erics birth cert to be sure you are tracing the correct family.

When was he born?

Christine

Puzzled !!

Is this your grandparents ?

Name: Herbert Joseph Champion -occupation of printer
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1894
Spouse Name: Lily Elizabeth Guthman
Spouse Age: 24
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 03 Apr 1920
Parish: St Andrew, Coin Street
County: Surrey
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: William John Champion - occupation of overseer printer
Spouse Father Name: John Guthman

Wow - that was quick thank you.

Yes it does look like him.

There is a roll of honour at Waterloo for those that died between 1914-1918 that worked on the railways with a J Champion a porter on it which I am told is an ancester of mine. I though it was possibly John Champion that I mentioned above who was a porter for the railway but that cant be right as Elizabeth is already a widow in 1911. Maybe there is a son starting with J who is not listed on this census record as there are 2 children still alive not mentioned.

Thanks again
Karen

1901 England Census about Elizabeth M Champion
Name: Elizabeth M Champion
Age: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Arthur C Champion
Gender: Female
Where born: Paddington, London, England
Civil Parish: Hackney
Ecclesiastical parish: All Souls Clapton
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Hackney
Sub-registration district: Central Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 307
Household Members:
Name Age
Arthur C Champion 34 police constable
Elizabeth M Champion 40
Arthur C Champion 14
Elizabeth M Champion 13
Jessie Champion 10
Horace Champion 6
Herbert E Champion 2

Are you sure yo have the correct name for the father of Herbert?

1901 England Census
about Herbert E Champion
Name: Herbert E Champion
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1899
Relation: Son
Father's name: Arthur C Champion
Mother's name: Elizabeth M Champion
Gender: Male
Where born: Hackney, London, England

Civil Parish: Hackney
Ecclesiastical parish: All Souls Clapton
County/Island: London
Country: England


Registration district: Hackney
Sub-registration district: Central Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 307
Household Members:
Name Age
Arthur C Champion 34
Elizabeth M Champion 40
Arthur C Champion 74 should be 14
Elizabeth M Champion 13
Jessie Champion 10
Horace Champion 6
Herbert E Champion 2

Christine

??

CHAMPION, Elizabeth Mary Head Widow F 48 1863 London Paddington VIEW
CHAMPION, Elizabeth Mary Daughter Single F 23 1888 Domestic Servant Daily London Paddington VIEW
CHAMPION, Horace Son Single M 15 1896 Brush Hand London Paddington VIEW
CHAMPION, Herburt Son M 12 1899 London Clapton Park VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
1100 Reference:
RG14PN1100 RG78PN36 RD11 SD3 ED27 SN283

Registration District:
Hackney Sub District:
Central Hackney Enumeration District:
27 Parish:
St John At Hackney

Address:
63 Redwald Road Clapton Park N E

Hiya

Could anyone help me please. I am trying to find out more information about my Grandad's side of the family.

My Grandad Eric was the son of Herbert Champion born 1894 in Hackney. Herbert was the son of John Champion born around 1875 ish or earlier and he married someone with surname Carter. I dont know her 1st name.

I understand Herbert had several brothers and sisters including Harry Ethel and Emma born early 1900's but there is rumour of more - I cant seem to find.

I would love to know who a bit more about John Champion ie his parents, siblings.

Any help with this would be much appreciated

Thank you and regards
Karen