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im researching the Sale family ,but ive been on Ancestry and found this information but its double dutch to me can someone please explain what this document means.Title, Irish Visitation.Research Guides and finding aids.page 24 section B right hand side starts Maud Tudor does it mean she married John Sandes of Greenville and had 3 children Gladys ,Doris and John?i know we have connections with Ireland somewhere.Is this document a family tree?and why is it signed by John Sandes Its probably clear as bell to some of you out there but I cant work it out hope you can help regards chris

Christine

I can't get this to come up on Ancestry. Was it Ancestry UK or Ancestry.com you were using? What search criteria were you using.

Googled Irish Visitation and, apart from Visitations by the Pope, the only thing that makes any sense was an agreement between American and English and Irish Inns of Court, but that doesn't seem to have started until 1988!

hi potty I printed it out and its says Ancestry.co.uk Ill try and find where i got it from (which section) and get back to you thanks for helping chris

Christine...A brief explanation re "Visitations" and "Presentments"...
These were relative to "Church Courts" going back 16th and 17th Century...
Church Warden's could present Parishioners of the Parish for offences under Ecclesiastical Law...
If you check out Church Courts...16th century you will get a fuller more in depth explanation.

yes im still looking there so much stuff on ancestry im lost to where i got it from

yes im still looking there so much stuff on ancestry im lost to where i got it from

Hi Christine, if you click on the Search tab on Ancestry and then click on Card Catalogue at the bottom. Type in Irish Visitation in Keyword in the Search section on the left hand side and it should bring you to the record that you found originally....hopefully!!!

Christine...I do not have Ancestry so cant even comment on what it is your looking for/at....No it would not be a "Family Tree".....it may be John Sandes is the Church Warden/Official conducting the Visitation as he has signed the Document...
What were you looking for to end up with the Research Guide for Irish Visitations..?

This is what Ancestry says about it's database

About Ireland Visitation

This database contains genealogies of some of the citizens of Ireland. In Ireland, the Ulster King of Arms (not the Herald, as in England) was in charge of controlling the use of coats of arms under the direction of the British Crown. The Ulster conducted visitations to record this use. Part of this recording included recording the pedigrees of the families using coats of arms. Pedigrees were recorded because families had to prove their right to bear the arms by showing their connections back to the original bearers. Because coats of arms were passed down through the generations, armory, or heraldry, has much genealogical value. This visitation, therefore, is significant because it provides over 150 pedigree charts as well as several illustrations of coats of arms used by families in Ireland.

Taken from: Herber, Mark D. Ancestral Trails. Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Company, Inc., 1998, pp. 492-494.

I dont want to confuse Christine any more than she needs to be with conflicting info.I have the same ref.but a later ed.(2007)...pages 576-577...refer to the Church Courts...628-629 refers to Heralds Visitations...Wish I had never looked...!!
Very complex.

wow what have i got into im just looking for my family! your all great out there thanks for your help im still looking as to where i got the info from must remember to document everything that i find , thanks again chris

I have found it! thanks to Londonbelle.First went to Ancestry card catologue, put in TITLE,Ireland visitation KEYWORDS,reasearch guides and finding aids clicked on TITLE Ireland visitation came up TITLE UK 12 VSTN-Ireland CHAPTER,volume 4 SECTION pedigrees Page 24 appears to be first published on ancestry 2002 and updated 26-09-2002.Im looking for informatiom with regard to Richard Sale section B right hand side, Eringobragh,what im looking for is the \irish connection to our family.It also came up with search all ireland visitation for RICHARD SALE 1-5 of 5 sorted by relenvance It looks to me as though John Sandes of Greenville Kerry married Maud Tudor Sale,hope this makes sense regards chris

Christine....I can only suggest you send me via a PM the details you have found from Ancestry as I may be able to cross check them so far I have not located a Sale (Richard) or a John Sandes of Greenville Co Kerry although I have found Lancelot/Charles and families ....Are you certain it is the Co Kerry and not the Co Kilkenny...? Where did Richard Sale originate...?

Christine...Have found the answer to my question re Richard Sale...here he is with family...1881 Census...(note it has Maud F Sale but a check of her Baptism shows Maud Tudor...


Search results | Download Previous Household Next Household


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Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Richard SALE Head M Male 55 Barrow, Derby, England ((Land...?) Taxes Commissioner
Florence SALE Daur U Female 22 Normanton, Derby, England
Maud F. SALE Daur U Female 19 Normanton, Derby, England
Ada E. SALE Daur Female 13 Normanton, Derby, England Scholar
Jeanie HOBILL Servant U Female 20 Ockbrook, Derby, England Domestic Servant
Mary KERRY Servant U Female 17 Derby, Derby, England Housemaid
Mary A. POWELL Servant U Female 18 Rothley, Leicester, England Cook


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Source Information:
Dwelling Barrow Hill
Census Place Barrow Upon Trent, Derby, England
Family History Library Film 1341809
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3386 / 113
Page Number 11

eringobragh Richard Sale originated from barrow on trent derbyshire his address in this document manor house barrow on trent co.Derby.I will send pm with the details,it still looks like some form of family tree reggards chris

hi ering just seen you latest message thanks a millon it was the middle name tudor that confused me isnt that a odd middle name?I will try and send you this tree( as I see it) but not to good with the typing, chris

Christine...I am not sure how/why you ended up in the Irish Visitations but the John Sandes you refer to married Maud Tudor Sale June 1896..in Derbyshire... 1901 they were living in Dublin (John b Co Kerry was a Barrister) with their family...
Do you have this info...? what exactly are you trying to find....Mauds family came from Derbyshire and John's were perhaps attached to the "Sandes" Estates Co Kerry...
You will be able to determine John's fathers name by obtaining their MC.

Christine....There is only 1 Birth Co Kerry for a John Sandes (1868) which would fit with his age 1901 Census and the parents were George Sandes and Ann Whyte.

hi Ering I was looking fot the connection to the Irish which is what you have found how I came up with irish visitation was just puting search all records for richard sale on ancestry.I did not have the info you found, it all fits just to explain the document i found i will send it to you later via pm have to go to work now your a gem thanks again chris