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I was thinking the same Janey that perhaps she turned up in Australia already pregnant!!! how do you explain that when husband has not seen you for a year?

jax

Wasn't expecting you so fast! I was editing my post above with the same theory as you just mentioned. ;)

This is amazing- thank you so much. I have been struggling with the information for over 3 months and with my mother quite elderly herself; feel that time isn't on my side! Ironically we went to Chichester last month to try and find out info, but with no luck. Mum lives in France now with my brother and I will phone to explain to my brother what you have discovered. My mum always thought that Joan was a half or step sister; [maybe a child of Bowden then] but although when they divorced my mother stayed with her father William Donald [who later remarried] the whereabouts of the elusive Joan has always been a mystery.My mother remembers Madeline DB [her mother] was running a pub as my mum went to visit her in about 1936. sincere thanks, Trudi

Hi Trudi. I have found Madeleine's death, under the surname of the man who was the co-respondent in the divorce.

Name: Madeleine Dorothy B Bowden
Birth Date: 16 May 1899
Death Registration Month/Year: Apr 1986
Age at death (estimated): 86
Registration district: Chichester
Inferred County: Sussex
Volume: 18
Page: 1634

If you get that death certificate, there might be the name of a family member as the informant.

I can't see a marriage for them in England, so she may have used his surname publicly but not married him.

Fortunately your mum isn't reading and you will be able to tell her about this privately. Of course she would know that Madeleine would be deceased, but the hard facts will probably be distressing even so.

I don't see any births in those surnames that are likely to be related.


Mr. Bowden is named only as WH in the summary of the divorce order; I imagine his full name would be in the file, but possibly not. I wonder whether this might be his death:

Name: Herbert William J Bowden
Birth Date: 27 Mar 1902
Death Registration Month/Year: 1979
Registration district: Chichester
Inferred County: West Sussex
Volume: 18
Page: 1478

That person was married in 1927 in Pontypridd (I don't see a divorce or remarriage for either party), so it's possible.

A bit of a wild theory ... William went to Australia before Madeleine. Is it possible that Joan was not William's child, and this was the cause of the marriage breakdown ... ?

What I was thinking is if The Joan that we found re married in 1957 she could well have gone back to Australia with new husband and son from 1st marriage but after 1960
I have tried looking at 192.com for the son and not found anything nor a marriage.
It may be worth contacting the person with Joan born 1917 in thier tree as Janey said it may be a link.
I will pm you the marriages and birth of the son.

jax

Hi, This has been such a mystery- I didn't know you could get divorce records- but thank you so so much! I am sure now that Joan was born in Australia and the photo I have of her and Mum on the boat must have been on the return journey. It would be fantastic to find out what happened to Joan and also to my mothers mother Madeline D.B. My mother is now 90 and would love to be able to put this mystery to rest. Thank you again.Trudi

Oops, I was editing mine and searching outgoing passengers for the 1943 name, etc. Same conclusions. ;)

I'm off for supper again ... it's gone 1 a.m. here and I just finished work!

I saw that too Janey
Just been trying to follow the marriages for the possible Joan. Looks like both parties remarried in 1957 but her name is now much too common. Cannot find the child after his birth ummm

jax

jax, I appreciate that Joan was almost certainly born in Australia, and I agree that that's the logical deduction.

Trudi thought she was born in Sussex. It's entirely possible that someone else might think the same thing.

Someone has a Joan Clapson born 1917 in Sussex in their tree here at GR. There is no such Joan Clapson in the GRO index. I think it's quite likely it's the same Joan Clapson as Trudi's.

I think the Joan who married in 1943 may have remarried in 1957 ... although the 1943 husband died in 2003, in Devon.

If the 1943 marriage is her there was one child born on the Isle of wight to that couple

jax

As I mentioned Janey I believe Joan was born in Australia as she was only on the list coming back aged 1. She could well have married in that name in England though.

Name: Miss J Clapson
Birth Date: abt 1924
Age: 1
Port of Departure: Australia
Arrival Date: 5 Jun 1925
Port of Arrival: Hull, England
Ports of Voyage: Brisbane
[Sydney]
[Melbourne]
[Adelaide]
[Colombo]
[Hobart]
Ship Name: Esperance Bay
Search Ship Database: View the 'Esperance Bay' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping line: Australian Commonwealth Line
Official Number: 150187

Someone here at GR has a Joan Clapson born 1917 in Sussex in their tree. (You have her as 1922 in Sussex.)

Since there was no Joan Clapson born 1917 in Sussex, it could be worth contacting that person.

Just search trees for the name with no other details; there are only 7 results in total.

It's interesting that there are only four Joan Clapson births in England/Wales ever:

Joan M Clapson Oct Nov Dec 1920 Glanford B
Joan A Clapson Jan Feb Mar 1921 Marylebone
Joan L Clapson 1938 Lambeth
Joan E Clapson 1958

but there are eight Joan Clapson marriages
- two no middle initial
- one Joan A
- one Joan E
- one Joan L
- three Joan M

Some must be second marriages of someone who was a Clapson by marriage (there are seven marriages of a Joan to a Clapson). And some would be too late to be realistic.

One with no middle initial is in Uxbridge 1943. I might wonder about that one.

Trudi, you might want to get the divorce papers. They should say something about the children and custody.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Just use the quick search box in the upper right corner and put in

clapson divorce


Court for Divorce and Matrimonial Causes, later Su... J 77/2608/1049

Divorce Court File: 1049.
Appellant: William Donald Clapson.
Respondent: Madeleine Dorothy Beatrice Clapson.
Co-respondent: W H Bowden.
Type: Husband's petition for divorce [HD]. .
Date: 1928 Source: The Catalogue of The National Archives

(I can delete this later if you'd rather it not be here.)

Same address they gave going to and from Australia
1911 census - household transcription
Person: THOMPSON, Madaline
Address: 24 Lyndhurst Road Chichester

.
MILES, George Head Married
42 years M 65 1846 Carpenter To A Builder Chichester Sussex VIEW
MILES, Elizabeth Wife Married F 68 1843 Purbrook Hampshire VIEW
THOMPSON, Florence Daughter Widow F 39 1872 Dressmaker Sandwich Kent VIEW
MILES, Madaline Daughter Single F 31 1880 Dressmaker Newhaven Sussex VIEW
MILES, William Son Single M 25 1886 Butcher Chichester Sussex VIEW
THOMPSON, Madaline Granddaughter F 11 1900 School Chichester Sussex VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

??
1911 census - household transcription
Person: CLAPSON, William
Address: Horeham Road Sussex

.CLAPSON, William Head Married M 43 1868 Farm Bailiff Sussex Heathfield VIEW
CLAPSON, Emma Wife Married
15 years F 43 1868 Sussex Heathfield VIEW
CLAPSON, William Son M 13 1898 School Sussex Heathfield VIEW
HARMER, George Nephew Single M 19 1892 Footman Domestic Sussex Heathfield VIEW

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Here they are coming back with an infant miss J clapson was with them aged 1 mum and dad were also mentioned but there is a line through williams name? but I think that may be because he was in the navy as there is another one on the same page that has a line through it.
It looks to me that Joan was not a half/step sister because the parents were still together, but where she went after they came home I could not tell you I'm affraid

Name: Miss M Clapson
Birth Date: abt 1920
Age: 5
Port of Departure: Australia
Arrival Date: 5 Jun 1925
Port of Arrival: Hull, England
Ports of Voyage: Brisbane
[Sydney]
[Melbourne]
[Adelaide]
[Colombo]
[Hobart]
Ship Name: Esperance Bay
Search Ship Database: View the 'Esperance Bay' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping line: Australian Commonwealth Line
Official Number: 150187

So your mum was born 1920 and she had a half/stepsister born 1923 ish whos daughter was she?

passenger transcript details
Name: Madeline CLAPSON
Date of departure: 15 November 1923
Port of departure: London
Passenger destination port: Melbourne, Australia
Passenger destination: Melbourne, Australia

Date of Birth: 1920 (calculated from age)
Age: 3
Marital status:
Sex: Female
Occupation:
Passenger recorded on: Page 7 of 24





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The following people with the same last name travelled on this voyage: -

Mrs Madeline D CLAPSON Page 7 of 24 View transcript



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William went to Australia first

passenger transcript details
Name: Mr W D CLAPSON
Date of departure: 11 October 1922
Port of departure: London
Passenger destination port: Melbourne, Australia
Passenger destination: Melbourne, Australia

Date of Birth:
Age: Adult
Marital status:
Sex: Male
Occupation: Royal Navy
Passenger recorded on: Page 18 of 23




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.So was Joan born in Australia ?

MY MOTHER BORN MADELINE CLAPSON -1920 IN CHICHESTER WAS DAUGHTER OF MADELINE D.B. Thompson and William Donald Clapson in the Royal Navy. Mum remembers a ?step/half sister Joan born about 1923? who lived with them for a while; they spent time in Australia when small. After Madeline and William divorced [ about 1927]? Joan disappeared. Mum has vague memories she went to live in London with a famous film stars family-but there is no birth or any other record at all.