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Thank you for that explanation, This may explain why they can't be found!!!

I think it may be right that Emma got confused with the father on her cert as they both have Reuben in.

Thank you all it's been most helpful.

Alison Blake

Thank you NL.

And back then finding half a crown for a piece of paper instead of on food.clothing or housing would have been a waste of money to a lot of people,plus of course they may not have had the money in the first place..

You're right Fanny.

The History of Birth Certificates
Births weren't always registered. That only first became necessary on July 1st 1837, when it was decreed that every subsequent birth, marriage and death in England or Wales had to be registered by the state. With births, the event would be registered in the district where the child was born, and at the end of each quarter, the registrar would send a copy of all the entries to the Registrar General. That means there should be two entries - one local, one national - for every birth since 1837. However, registering all three events didn't become compulsory until 1875. When it was introduced, the cost of a copy certificate was two shillings and sixpence (30p), one shilling (5p) of which went to the registrar and the fee stayed the same until 1952.

This means that tracing births back to 1875 is relatively straightforward. Between 1837-1875 it might prove a bit harder, as some didn't register, or even gave false names for a number of reasons - to hide the true age of a child so it could be sent out to work, or, after 1853, because parents wanted to avoid the compulsory vaccination of children at three months old, which was introduced that year. Until 1875 there was no penalty for parents who didn't register a birth, and then a £2 fine was introduced.


There may very well be a local registration for John and Emma but perhaps the quarterly copy didn't get sent off to the GRO or was lost en route. Perhaps Islington or St Pancras register office might have something.

Not very good at explaining this but.
Until 1875 (I think)it was not the law that you HAD to reg your child at the reg office.


A friends gran did not reg her 2 daughters births until 1938 when they asked for their certs to get a passport !
She then had to admit they werent reg when born 20 and 22 yrs before as she "hadnt got round to it" !

Thank you everyone for the information, I was starting to think I may have missed something but now others can't find a birth for either John or Emma, poss Jane, I know I am not mad!!.

Can I ask, if the births are not registered, why was this? in genral?

Many thanks again for looking I will keep searching for the answer, my father in laws side certainly is tricky!!!

Alison Blake

One for the pot! The ages and places of birth are right for this to be Isaac and Sarah

Alfred Woodlen
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Georgie Woodlen
Mother's Name: Sarah Woodlen
Gender: Male
Where born: Islington
Civil parish: Islington St John
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Islington
Household Members: Name Age
Georgie Woodlen 34 >>>>Gardener
Sarah Woodlen 36
Alfred Woodlen 7

1841 England Census
Name: Isaac Woodlin
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1835
Gender: Male

Civil parish: St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey
Hundred: Brixton (Eastern Division)
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Registration district: St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey
Sub-registration district: St James
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Benjamen Woodlin 28 ....gardener
Vizey Woodlin 27
Isaac Woodlin 6
John Woodlin 9 MO

None of them born in County.

Possible other children for Isaac and Sarah


Births Dec 1860
WOODLIN Isaac Islington 1b 293

Deaths Dec 1860
Woodlin Isaac Islington 1b 185


Births Dec 1861
WOODLIN Emily Ni[sz][ce]ay Islington 1b 189 (???Emily Vizey)

Name: Isaac Woodlin
Age: Full Age
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Spouse Name: Sarah Masters
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 05 Apr 1856
Parish: St Paul, Canonbury
County: Middlesex
Borough: Islington
Father Name: Benjamin Woodlin
Spouse Father Name: Reuben Masters

So Isaac and Sarah were married...

I can't see a birth for John or Emma

I do not see a birth anywhere in the timescale or place (ish)For an Emma Jane Woodlin at the moment.

Births for almost everyone else,but not her.

Maybe she was not registered at birth?

Looking at the originals of the marriage certificates for Alfred Reuben Woodlin - it gives his father as Isaac Reuben Woodlin - gardener, on his first marriage, Isaac Woodlin (deceased), gardener on his second marriage and Isaac Woodlin (deceased), waiter (!!!) on his third marriage

Could Emma have become confused when she gave her father's name to the registrar and said Alfred Reuben instead of Isaac Reuben.

The Isaac on the 1881 census is a gardener and Sarah gives 'Alfred Reuben's' occupation as a gardener deceased on her marriage certificate. Isaac died in 1888.

Alfred Reuben's occupation on his marriage certificates is plumber/gas fitter for the first two marriages and carpenter for the third marriage.

My guess is that Alfred Reuben is Emma's brother and not her father and that Isaac and Sarah are her parents.

Here is her nieces with their parents in 1891

Name: John Woodlin
Age: 37
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah Woodlin
Gender: Male
Where born: Islington, London, England

Civil parish: Islington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Upper Holloway
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Woodlin 37
Sarah Woodlin 26
Annie Woodlin 7
Sarah Woodlin 5
Nelley Woodlin 3

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 141; Folio 14; Page 26; GSU roll: 6095251

Marriages Jun 1883 (>99%)
COX Mary Ann Islington 1b 338
JAMES Sarah Islington 1b 338
WHITE William Henry J Islington 1b 338
>>>>>Woodlin Alfred Reuben Islington 1b 338

For reference

BLAKE, Edward James Head Married M 42 1869 House Painter Islington London  
BLAKE, Emma Jane Wife Married
21 years F 39 1872 Islington London  
BLAKE, Edward Woodlin Son Single M 21 1890 House Painter Islington London  
BLAKE, Robert Son Single M 19 1892 Carman Contractor Islington London  
BLAKE, Martha Daughter Single F 16 1895 Islington London  
BLAKE, Emma Jane Daughter F 9 1902 Islington London  
BLAKE, William Richard Son M 2 1909 Islington London  
RG number:RG14 Piece:790 Reference:RG14PN790 RG78PN27 RD10 SD1 ED15 SN330
 
Registration District:Islington
Sub District:Tufnell Enumeration District:15 Parish:Islington
 
Address:3 Eaton Grove Holloway N

Is this your family?

1901..again for ref.


BLAKE JR, Edward J Head Married M 29 1872 Coal Carman
Islington
London
BLAKE, Emma J Wife Married F 28 1873
Islington
London
BLAKE, Edward J Son M 10 1891
Islington
London
BLAKE, Robert Son M 7 1894
Islington
London
BLAKE, Martha Daughter F 6 1895
Islington
London
WOODLIN, Ann Niece Single F 17 1884 Laundress
Highgate
London
WOODLIN, Sarher Niece Single F 15 1886 Laundress
Highgate
London

Registration District:
Islington Sub District:
Upper Holloway Enumeration District:
17 Ecclesiastical Parish:
All Saints

Civil Parish:
Islington Municipal Borough:
Address:
75, Rupert Road, Islington County:
London

1881

WOODLIN, Isaac Head Married M 44 1837 Grdnr (N D)
Ongar
Essex
WOODLIN, Sarah Wife Married F 47 1834
Mrylbne
Middlesex
WOODLIN, John Son Single M 18 1863 Grainer
St Pancras
Middlesex
WOODLIN, Jane Daughter Single F 8 1873 Schr
St Pancras
Middlesex

Registration District:
Islington Sub District:
Islington East Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Islington Municipal Borough:
Address:
10, Dillon Pl, Islington County:
Middlesex

1891 for ref

BLAKE, Edward J Head Married M 20 1871 House Painter
London
BLAKE, Jane Wife Married F 19 1872
Holloway
London
BLAKE, Edward J Son M 1 1890
Holloway
London

Registration District:
Islington Sub District:
Upper Holloway Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:
St Johns

Civil Parish:
Islington Municipal Borough:
Address:
68, Hampden Road, Islington, London County:
London


Name: Edward James Blake
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1871
Spouse Name: Emma Jane Woodlin
Spouse Age: 19
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 09 Feb 1891
Parish: St Peter, Highgate Hill
County: London
Borough: Islington
Father Name: Edward James Blake
Spouse Father Name: Alfred Renben Woodlin

Hi, I am trying to find the birth for Emma Jane Woodlin, born 1871/2.

She had a child in 1889, Edward James Blake and married Edward James Blake Snr in 1891, when she was 19. On her Marriage Cert it has 'father' Alfred Reuben Woodlin'. 'Deceased'

I have searched Alfred and saw he was married 3 times but his date of birth, which matches up with birth records and marriage records would of made him 7/8 when Emma was born, so Alfred can't be her father (she also said he was deceased in 1891 but seemed alive in 1900 on his third marriage)

I have found a Jane Woodlin, in the 1881 Census living with Isaac and Sarah Woodlin, and John woodlin 18, Isaac and Sarah were Alfreds parents (I know Isaac was for sure)

I assume, John, Alfred and Emma were siblings??

I cannot find Alfred born in Islington in any of the census' I have found on Ancestry.co.uk.

Would anyone be able to give me a website address or any info?

I would be very greatful, if I do not reply straight away I am out for the afternoon.

Many Thanks, Alison Blake