Find Ancestors

Hi

Opotiki Cemetery is online. There is Walter Henry BOYLAN. and plaquet hat says
"In loving memorry of May Boylan Snell died 28th of May 1967, aged 96 years Born Omarumutu, daugher of Walter Henry BOYLAN Publican Omarumutu Hotel. Died 2 November 1888 aged 57 years."

And below that is Mini Mere Wesney WETINI

Check it out .


Cheers

I check for updates now and then :)

Hello Patrick and welcome to the boards.

You have replied to an old thread here and it is possible that Lydia isn't checking for replies anymore.

You can try clicking on her name and sending your message that way. If she still has the same email address, she will be notified.

Regards.

Oh yes......it would be better if you could please edit your post to remove your email address as this is a public site and GR do not encourage us to put our email addys on. Thanks. Cx.

FOR THE ARCHIVES,
The Boylan Skipper possible connections

1- In a court case Following the death of Walter henry boylan in 1888
Walter is decribed, by newpaper report, (ive not seen the original court papers) as the uncle of George Skipper who was a nephew Sussanna Fuller/McDonald/ nee Skipper born Hingham Nofolk

2- Susanna's eldest son Henry colen( Mcdonald)Fuller
named his son Walter henry boylan FULLER

Chris Glass
www.jccglass.me.uk

https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=getHistIdxSearchCriteria

A general search for the name Walter Boylan finds 3 records: 1 birth and 2 deaths. Records are cheap to look at, so you might want to have a look at them.

I'm not paying, so I played with the date ranges.

The birth was in 1860. The father's name was not Walter.

One death was in 1861 -- likely the child born in 1860, in infancy.

The other was between 1920 and 1930. Quite a bit too late for Susannah Skipper/Fuller to have been operating a hotel.

If you just search for all events for the name Walter Boylan, you can see them all on one results page for $0.99.

There are also 4 results for the name Susanna Fuller (also for Susannah Fuller -- I imagine they are the same). You can see them on one results page as well.

Lydia --

"I would have thought that there would've been a mention of Walter Henry Boylan or even a Walter Henry Skipper if he was a member of that family. "

There was never a Boylan in Norfolk. Not a one, ever.

And yes, if there was a Walter Henry Skipper who was a member of that family, he would appear in at least one census with them, even if there wasn't a findable baptism record, for instance.

I'd thought what I was getting at was clear, but maybe not.

There were two sons in that family: Fuller and Charles.

Fuller married and had two children, and then after the baptism of the second one, the entire lot of them disappear from records. There is no death of a Fuller Skipper, and no marriage or death of a Catherine Skipper that matches, for example. (You can do those searches at FreeBMD.)

Charles Skipper appears in one record after his baptism, the 1851 census when he was 7. Although the older one, Fuller, is still with the family in the next census, Charles is not. His name is much more common so it would be difficult to rule a marriage or death in the index in or out without the certificate, but I can't see him in any later census.

I'm not entirely clear why it has been decided that Walter Henry Boylan was the brother of Susannah Skipper/Fuller. But it seems clear that she *was* Susannah Skipper, daughter of Charles Skipper and Susannah Fuller, who changed her name to Fuller after emigrating, after a scandalous marriage.

There is *no* birth, marriage or death of a single Walter Boylan in the English records until a birth in 1939. Of course, if he was born before 1837 and didn't marry in England, then his birth wouldn't be there. But surely he would be in the 1841 census as a child.

If there really is some good reason to believe WHB was the brother of Susannah Skipper, then he has to have been either Fuller or Charles, who changed his name when he emigrated or later. People changed their names, for a variety of reasons. I discovered five years ago that my mother's surname is completely fake, a result of her grandfather adopting a false name around 1878, likely because he deserted from the military while in India.

If Walter Henry Boylan did that, and did it so thoroughly that he never gave correct information about his real identity -- e.g. parents' names when he married -- you have a very hard row to hoe.

Harry Boylan, son of Walter Henry Boylan, was born in 1889 in New Zealand. If the estimates of WHB's age (dob 1831) are correct, that made him about 58 at the time.

If WHB was really Charles Skipper or Fuller Skipper, he would have been slightly younger -- 45ish or 48ish.

It's interesting, I'm just not clear on where the info about Walter Henry Boylan's background before the marriage to Minnie Wellesley / Mini Witene or the birth of his son Harry is coming from.

Janey,

I just found out that Rangi Boylan died 7.10.1988 in Hawera New Zealand and he was in his 70's.
Harry Boylan was born in 1889 and died 02.02.1957 in NZ.
How would I go about finding a record of a death in Melbourne? One of the relatives says that there was a Walter Boylan who was a gold miner was killed during a pub brawl in Melbourne and that Susannah Fuller (nee Skipper) had to appear in court as she was the proprietor of the hotel at the time. I have no idea how she knows this.

Hi Janey,
I would have thought that there would've been a mention of Walter Henry Boylan or even a Walter Henry Skipper if he was a member of that family.
I have not certain date of birth for either Rangi or Harry Boylan at this stage, just waiting to hear back from relatives who know. Rangi died about 1973 in Taranaki NZ and I think he was born about 1910 - 1915 in Taranaki. Harry Boylan died in 1958 in either Taranaki or Opotiki NZ. Again I will wait for confirmation to confirm this.
Walter Henry Boylan died in 1888 and is apparently buried in the Opape Cemetery in Opotiki NZ. His grandaughter (who is in her 80's) said she has this written down but I think I will need to confirm this with the registry office just to make sure.
Thank you.

I should also have considered Charles Skipper 1844.

He's with the family in 1851 in Hingham (mother Susannah seems to be elsewhere, but she is with father Charles in 1881, both aged 79).

Charles Skipper 48
Eliza Skipper 21
Harriett Skipper 20
Leah Skipper 14
Fuller Skipper 9
> Charles Skipper 7
Elbina Skipper 10 MO
(I think this Elbina is more likely a daughter of Eliza or Harriett.)


But here's the household in 1861 in Hingham:

Charles Skipper 59 - journeyman carpenter
Susan Skipper 59
Albinah Skipper 10 - grandchild
Fuller Skipper 18 - journeyman bricklayer
Fanny Lee 7 (Lees are boarders, born Deopham)
Kate Lee 5

The next door neighbours are James and Happy Woolner, who I would think are the parents of Fuller Skipper's wife.

No Charles. And I don't see him in censuses after that. So he may also be worth considering.

People did change names, no question, and for a variety of reasons. ;)

No major inconvenience, Lydia -- it was interesting to read the efforts that have been made elsewhere. ;)

I have found this one bit of fact, anyhow!

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl

County Norfolk
Place Hingham
Church St Andrew
RegisterNumber 142
MarriageDate 11 Nov 1828
GroomForename Charles
GroomSurname SKIPPER
GroomParish Otp
GroomCondition Bachelor
BrideForename Susan
BrideSurname FULLER
BrideParish Otp
BrideCondition Spinster
WitnessOneForename John
WitnessOneSurname PETTITT
WitnessTwoForename Mary
WitnessTwoSurname FULLER
FileNumber 1313

No info about fathers. "Otp" means "of this parish".

That's a transcribed copy of a real parish record. So it confirms the marriage of what seem to be the parents of Susannah Skipper. Yes, here she is:

County Norfolk
Place Hingham
Church St Andrew
RegisterNumber 1000
DateOfBirth 06 Sep 1834
BaptismDate 09 Sep 1834
Forename Susanna
Sex F
FatherForename Charles
MotherForename Susan
FatherSurname SKIPPER
MotherSurname
Abode Hingham
FatherOccupation Carpenter
FileNumber 1312


This is a list of their children from FreeREG baptisms (on a search for baptisms, name Charles Skipper, 1837 +/- 10 years, in Hingham, Norfolk, and having checked each result to rule out those not born to Charles and Susannah):


Baptisms 13 Oct 1829 SKIPPER Eliza Norfolk Hingham Father Surname
Baptisms 22 Feb 1831 SKIPPER Harriet Norfolk Hingham Father Surname
Baptisms 25 Feb 1833 SKIPPER Albina Norfolk Hingham Father Surname
Baptisms 09 Sep 1834 SKIPPER Susanna Norfolk Hingham Father Surname
Baptisms 29 Apr 1836 SKIPPER Leah Norfolk Hingham Father Surname
Baptisms 08 Nov 1838 SKIPPER Rachel Norfolk Hingham Father Surnam
Baptisms 28 Nov 1841 SKIPPER Fuller Norfolk Hingham Father Surname
Baptisms 18 Feb 1844 SKIPPER Charles Norfolk Hingham Father Surname


I also searched for baptisms for the name Fuller, in the same place, 1825 +/- 5 years, in case Susannah had a child before marriage. None found.

You may want to bring that info about Susannah to the search table, in case it helps! It does seem to make it unlikely that Walter was a brother of Susannah Skipper.

It also makes this (copied in a post above from rootschat) nonsense:

Birth: 6 Sep 1835 family say Australia
Parents names: Charles BOYLAN and Susannah.
Siblings name: Walter Henry BOYLAN#
Husband's name: Henry FULLER.
Daughter's name: Eliza Albania FULLER born 1861

It's been made up out of whole cloth. Susannah's mother's name was Fuller, not her husband's. Note that her daughter's name matches up with the names of two of Susannah Skipper's sisters, Eliza and Albina.


The oldest son of Charles Skipper and Susannah Fuller seems to be the one born in 1841. The birth of Fuller Skipper was registered in 1841 and he married in 1870, to Mary Ann Woolner. (The baptism and marriage have been submitted to the IGI, with no info at the familysearch site about the submitter.)

There's no death record, though. In 1871 he is living with his wife, father-in-law and infant daughter Catherine in Hingham.

Catherine Skipper may have married in 1893 in Norwich -- although no, that was more likely the daughter of Charles and Margaret born c1872, in Norwich reg dist in 1891.

FreeREG has the baptism of a daughter Eliza in 1874 as well as daughter Catherine Ida 1871.

So hmm, Fuller Skipper and his wife and child seem to have vanished after the 1874 birth.

But this is too late for him to be your Walter Henry Boylan, I think?

It could be worth seeing whether any of these people emigrated and whether there is any record of them in New Zealand or Australia.


Maybe you could give us a bit of a timeline. Not that anyone here is likely to solve the puzzle this year, but it would put it here for reference.

Rangi Hunia Boylan was born when and where
His father Harry Hunia Boylan was born when and where

for instance.

Hi Janey,
I'm sorry if I gave you information that was incorrect or misled you in anyway, I certainly didn't mean to.

The things I do know for fact are that my ex father in law (Rangi Hunia Boylan)'s parents were Harry Hunia Boylan and Rutua Ngapae Whakamoutonga. This has come directly from my ex husband and his brothers.
My ex husband's Aunt (Rangi's sister Mary) said that Harry Boylan's father was named Walter Henry Boylan.
Rangi and his mother Rutua are Maori from Taranaki in NZ and Harry and his parents were English.
I don't know if that is anything to go on or not.
Other family members have been trying to research this too and they came up with the name of Susannah Harriet Boylan (or Skipper as they have said).
Their information came from their grandparents and has been passed down.
I'm so sorry to have caused you any inconvenience Janey. Thank you for your help.

But ...

http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html

is showing two Walter Skipper children in Norfolk in the 1841 census. Problem is, I can't find them at Ancestry ... One aged 2, one aged 4.

Right, I forgot, there was this one:

Name: Walter Skipper
Age: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1837
Where born: Norfolk, England

Civil parish: Brancaster
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Registration district: Docking

Richard Skipper 35
Maria Skipper 35
Antony Skipper 10
George Skipper 8
David Skipper 6
Walter Skipper 4
Caroline Skipper 2

but different parents and different place from the Susannah.

Yes, Lydia, *you* had that info. But you didn't give it -- so nobody here had it, and I went looking and found it. And the things you said, e.g. "his parents were Charles and Susannah Boylen", are not exactly fact, so it is not really wise or fair to state them as that when asking for help.

It really is kind of fair to let people here know that people around the world have already worked on this problem for quite some time! -- and to let us know what their findings or theories have been.

For info, there is a *submitted* (unconfirmed) marriage record in the IGI:

Charles Skipper
Spouse: Susan Fuller Family
Marriage: 11 NOV 1828 Hingham, Norfolk, England
Batch No.: I022592


This could be entirely circular -- someone knows that Susannah in Australia went by the name Fuller and hears it might have been her mother's surname, and invents a parents' marriage to go with. It doesn't look that way, but without seeing the actual parents' records, one doesn't know. Or that could be a perfectly genuine marriage record, but be completely unconnected with Susannah Skipper/Fuller, let alone Walter Henry Boylan.

The batch seems to be various events in Norfolk in 1828.


Whatever else, the name Boylan really seems to have nothing to do with Norfolk, and is pretty certainly Irish.

I did look all over 1841 and 1851 for a Walter or Henry Skipper to match, of course, but no luck.

Hi Janey,
I have the info from rootsweb and from Dreambook as Shadae is my niece.
Could Walter Henry Boylan be named Walter Henry Skipper?
Thank you.

There's a Susanna Skipper in 1841 who certainly fits:


Name: Susanna Skipper
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1835
Where born: Norfolk, England

Civil parish: Hingham
County/Island: Norfolk

Charles Skipper 35
Susanna Skipper 35
Eliza Skipper 11
Harriot Skipper 10
Albinah Skipper 8
Susanna Skipper 6
Leary Skipper 4


Note the parents' names. ;)

There is also a Diana Skipper aged 50(+) on the facing census page.

Except it varies ...

http://genforum.genealogy.com/boylan/messages/523.html

"Anyone with information on Charles Boylan. His wife was called Sussana ? They had a son called Walter Henry Boylan born 1831 in Norfolk, England. Walter emigrated to NZ. He married Mini Witene. They had two children, May and Harry Hunia Boylan. Who were Charles parents? Did he have brothers and sisters."


http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=342618.0

I'm Looking for more information on Susannah and her family. All details have yet to be verified.

Birth: 6 Sep 1835 family say Australia
Parents names: Charles BOYLAN and Susannah.
Siblings name: Walter Henry BOYLAN#
Husband's name: Henry FULLER.
Daughter's name: Eliza Albania FULLER born 1861

BIO: Apparently Susannah owned a lot of land in and around Whangarei, New Zealand including the Settlers Hotel which she owned with her brother. Her brother Walter# was born 1831 Norfolk, England died 2 Nov 1888 Omarumutu, Opotiki, New Zealand. He is said to have married Minnie WELLESLEY and had two children: Harry Hunia BOYLAN died 1958, and May BOYLAN married SNELL.

(with multiple replies)


It gets more interesting ;) --

http://books.dreambook.com/maorimax/ngaituhoe.html

Kia ora, I am searching for information about Te Kariki Aporo Aperaniko who was aparently paramount chief of Waikaremoana at one stage. I have documents that connect my whanau to him through his great grand daughter Mini Wetene and her second marriage to pakeha Walter Henry Boylan. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Arohanui, Shadae.
(There's an email address for that one in the surname Boylan)


http://www.jccglass.me.uk/scotnz/skip-info4a.html

AS yet the origins of Susannah harriet Fuller are not clear.
From the family reunion report she was the sister of Walter henry Boylan, however it seems possible that both have changed their names.

Later research indicates that her maiden name was Skipper born Hingham Norfolk, which is also the birth place of Walter henry Boylan circa 1831, according to his decendants. although no recoprds of Boylan could be found in norfolk. Susannah emigrated to Tasmania where she married.
Family folklore tells that the marriage was not legal, the story continues that a son changed his name of Boylan and it seems Susannah changed to her mothers maiden name, possibly to avoid embaressment following the bigamy trial. The following reports confirm the story!



Kind of looks like you're looking for answers that many have failed to find. ;)

Right, a google for "Walter Henry Boylan" finds that info all over the place, so we can have a gander.

Lydia, if you tell us where on the net, we can maybe assess it.

For instance, if it's from a tree at Ancestry, it could be meticulously researched, or it could be utter bogus nonsense. ;)

Do you have Walters death certificate ?

If the N.Z. certificates are anything like the Australian ones there is usually a lot of extra info on them.

The certificte may also tell you how long he was in N.Z. and where else he lived.

I could not find a marriage for him in N.Z. nor in Australia.

Nor could I find a birth for his sister, Susannah, in Australia

unfortunately I am just going off info I found on the net. I do know he died in Opotiki NZ in 1888 and that he was married to a Minnie Wellesley. That info comes from family members but no backup sorry.