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Now has anyone a magic wand?

This one is frustrating - its is as thou , those that know, won't talk.

I am wanting to know more about those that descended and I am assuming at this stage those descendants are more likely living here in Melbourne/Victoria.

Mary's parents were John Frederick Wilhelm Helwig (1865-1916) bn: Germany and her mother Ernestina (Christine) Pietsch (1862-1921) bn: Hamilton, Victoria. They married 1892.
They had 15 children and I am expanding this side - so far have many but that is not my issue at this point.

Mary had 4 children and all have no father shown on the birth register.
(Maybe this is why people don't want to know about her - but life goes on and we do know the circumstances - do we - some are very sad stories)

Mary's Children:
1. Frederick was born 1912 and died 1912
2. Millie Bn: 1914
3. Walter Bn: 1914
4. William Bn 1920 - he is still living


I know all about William's family for his son married my sister and they had a daughter Karen. William had two children - Howard and Deseree.

So can anyone help find out more about Millie and Walter - marriages, children, locations, etc. and if they have passed on or not.

(Did suspect that Walter may have married a Cecilia Smith probably after 1942.

Thanks
Kev

Hi Kevin,

marriage of Walter

Reg No Surname Given Name Spouse Surname Spouse Names District

25048/1940 Helwig Walter Smith Cecelia Alice Granville

wonder if Walter died in WW2

Name: Helwig Walter
S/No:29688
Date of Birth: 27 November, 1916
Place of Birth: Balarratt
Place of Enlistment: Marylands, N.S.W.
Next of Kin: Cecilia Helwig

remarriage of Cecilia

7062/1945 Betts Archibald William Helwig Cecilia Alice Sydney

Dont think Walter died in WW2, ????possible remarriage

3241/1947 Helwig Walter Ober Helena Johanna Auburn

Probably have this

Surname: Helwig
Name: Martha Mary
Event: Death
Fathers Name: Johann Frede
Mothers Name: Christine Er Pietsch
Death place: Hamilton
Age: 77
Yr: 1970
Reg No: 14777

Hi Mel

Boy that sure does sound like the right Walter.
Born 1916 in Ballarat.

The Helwig's and all the clan came from Nhill, Japarit, Hamilton, Ballarat, Warracknabeal.

Don't think he died in the war - even though I think your enlistment is correct.

The remarriages are interesting

I did have a death for Cecilia Alice Smith 1958 Preston Vic. So not sure if this would fit since she has remarried??

I do have everything on Mary Martha and she was buried at Hamilton Cemetery, Victoria.

Interesting that he was in NSW.
I looked up the Melbourne Phone book on whitepages and found a W. Helwig currently at Croydon - I wonder???

I have to take this slowly and gently because if what happened to William was the same with the other children they were put with other families - not adopted legally and that is what they know as their family.

I wonder what happened with Millie??
Unfortunately if she married after 1942 then there are no records available.

Thanks

Kev

Hi Kev,

Found the following on the Ryerson Index, ???? poss death of Walter

Surname: Helwig
Given Names: Wally
Notice Type: Death
Date: 27 Jun, 1997
Other Details: late of North Haven, formerly of Guildford
Publication: Sydney Morning Herald
Date: 5 Jul, 1997

Surname: Helwig
Given Name: Wally
Notice Type: Death
Other Details: formerly of Dunbogan
Publication: Camden Haven Courier
Date: 9 Jul, 1997

Surname: Helwig
Given Name: Walter
Notice Type: Probate
Date: 8 Oct, 1997
Other Details: late of Laurieton
Publication: Camden Haven Courier
Date: 8 Oct, 1997

the was also another Probate notice, all details the same as above, except dated 22 Oct, 1997

There are four Helwigs listed in New South Wales White Pages & a few listed in Queensland.

Hi Kevin,

If Walter did marry Helena Ober, then they headed north. The 1954 Electoral Rolls show them as Walter Helwig, station hand and Helena Johnanna Helwig home duties, at Westerton Station, Longreach Qld.

Sorry, but no sign of Millie.

Any Helwigs listed in Queensland might be of help to you.

Cheers.

Thanks for your help

I have been doing some very wide searches of the internet with some success on the overall family.

Maybe I should revert back to a letter drop which in the past I found very successful.

Well I have just received a reply from the person I emailed last Friday. I will have to download some data and see what there is - I will let you all know how this goes.

Thanks again everyone

Kev

Well had a read of the 32 pages sent to me last night - unfortunately nothing new on Mary Martha children.

It sure did have everything else - isn't that the way.
But that too will be very interesting for addition to the tree.

I will have another look at this data and maybe I can get to see where the families are currently living - who knows.

I am planning to see William Wednesday to see if first he wishes to know more and then how much more..Waiting for my sister to confirm if the meeting is organised.

Again - I will let you all know where too next.

Thanks again

Kev.

Just to add, this seems to be the death of Walter's first wife:

41571/1973
BETTS CECILIA ALICE
father CECI
mother EVELYN
district BOWRAL NSW

Her death certificate (or a transcript for half the price, google "joy murrin" for a service that has been recommended here) should list all her children, i.e. including children with Walter if any.

From the Ryerson Index:

BETTS Cecilia Alice Death notice 06MAR1973 Death
late of Moss Vale Sydney Morning Herald 07MAR1973

which might also mention children.


The death of a sibling of Cecilia, for what that might be worth -- the more names the better. ;)

2179/1921
SMITH IRENE E
father CECIL A
mother EVELYN M
WOOLLAHRA

The parents were

5426/1916
SMITH CECIL A
HUNTER EVELYN M
NEWTOWN


BETTS Archibald William Death notice 25DEC1977 Death
late of Moss Vale Sydney Morning Herald 28DEC1977

200113/1978
BETTS ARCHIBALD WILLIAM
father ALFRED ERNEST ALBERT BOU
mother JESSIE

10631/1913
BETTS ALFRED E
BROWN JESSIE
COONABARABRAN


There are two Betts listings in Moss Vale at present, possibly children of Cecilia Smith Helwig Betts.

Kevin, two people (one I thought was you, but it seems not) have the name Cecilia Smith born in NSW in their trees -- one 1921 in Temora and one 1920 in Watson Bay.

Might they be worth contacting?

That's the best thing to use this site for -- collecting names and then searching trees for them. ;)

Note that you seem to have only Walter in your tree, so it would be wise to add the others and their mother, e.g.

Kevin,

Have sent PM with some info

Vanessa

Vanessa, could you indicate what kind of info, just so other members don't go searching for the same thing?

Just, e.g., contact info for a child of so-and-so, whatever it was.

Hi everyone

Vanessa asked if I had found a tree by Margaret Hamilton - and yes she was the one that has it all and the information I receievd last night. 32 pages.
But no joy on the children of Mary Martha.

However I would have to say the only thin hope would be Millie still being alive but then she would be 96.

I have talked with my sister and am now awaiting to see if we can talk with William Wednesday this week since we will both be near him. If that is Ok then I will be asking him if he wants to know more - as to if he has asked anyone in the family that he grew up with about his life.

I will keep you all posted - there is more moss to get rid off yet.

Thanks
Kev

I assume you noticed what I posted about Walter's family.

Hi Janey
Yes I did and I have list some messages against a spread of those who have a Cecilia in their trees. (Already had one reply and that is the wrong Cecilia) 3 to go.
I have also expanded my tree for what I have so far.
Interestingly that the Cecilia that may link - there is one tree with Walter Helwig whom I had contacted in the past but nothing on the children.
So I have just requested that i view that tree - you never know what shows.
Thanks
Kev

Hi Kevin - mostly what I was getting at was that it would be worth getting the details from Cecilia's death certificate, as it should list children she had with Walter -- if there were any, and if the person who registered her death decided to declare them. ;)

Hi Everyone
Just a small update.
Spoke with William and his wish is that he would like to now live what remains in his life without knowing more or being contacted by anyone.
I do understand and I didn't highlight that I/we had found anything. I do think maybe it would become even a bigger shock if I highlighted a lot more to him and it is not worth upsetting anyone.
So i will do what I did with one other person in the family who told be lots - was that I didn't let anyone know until they had died.
So i will leave this on the board for a short time and then remove it.
I do have lots to continue on with and what I have found is more than enough. Sorry if some people don't understand but he is a good man & he should be allowed to live his life his way.

Thank you all

Kev